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	<title>Comments on: Means testing or comprehensive medical insurance?</title>
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	<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/</link>
	<description>a community of singaporeans</description>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-25427</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-25427</guid>
		<description>&quot;“No accountable govt can get away with such policies, only a dictatorship.”

Huh? So who gave them the mandate in the first place? IMHO, Singaporeans have no rights to complaint. You guys voted them into power due to greed (e.g. lift upgrading etc…and ofi course ignorance). And now you wanna sing the blues? Get over it, be wiser at the next GE.&quot;

Before you mention this, Phatty, please consider that while Singapore is definitely not a dictatorship, it is certainly not a democracy either. Instead, as has been determined by external examiners, Singapore is a pseudo-democracy. It would be interesting to count how many walkovers there were in different parts of Singapore. Exactly how much say do Singaporeans have in the first place?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;“No accountable govt can get away with such policies, only a dictatorship.”</p>
<p>Huh? So who gave them the mandate in the first place? IMHO, Singaporeans have no rights to complaint. You guys voted them into power due to greed (e.g. lift upgrading etc…and ofi course ignorance). And now you wanna sing the blues? Get over it, be wiser at the next GE.&#8221;</p>
<p>Before you mention this, Phatty, please consider that while Singapore is definitely not a dictatorship, it is certainly not a democracy either. Instead, as has been determined by external examiners, Singapore is a pseudo-democracy. It would be interesting to count how many walkovers there were in different parts of Singapore. Exactly how much say do Singaporeans have in the first place?</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23693</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23693</guid>
		<description>Well I think means testing goes by the same principle as progressive taxation. If you are rich you pay more to subsidise the poor. Not that I&#039;m defending it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I think means testing goes by the same principle as progressive taxation. If you are rich you pay more to subsidise the poor. Not that I&#8217;m defending it.</p>
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		<title>By: saintmoron</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23669</link>
		<dc:creator>saintmoron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 05:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23669</guid>
		<description>Gerald, thank You for your response.
When I wrote that means testing is applied across the board, I meant that all patients, rich, poor and inbetween, who wish to be warded in &#039;low classes wards&#039;, especially C Class, will be affected.

Ideally, I surmise that costs of goods and services be consistent and commensurate to their qualities constants. Consumers(customers,clients and patients) shall then pay according to the goods and services they choose. If my understanding is right, in the case of our(Singapore) Means Testing, it means that an affordable patient will be receiving less subsidy than patients who are poorer while the services(medical/hospitality) maybe or is the same. When such is the case, then a customer(patient in this case) is made to pay more for the same thing.

Yes, there maybe citizens who feel that the Means Testing seems fair; I beg to differ simply because in the market place, there is no such practices that one pays more for an item(goods/services) simply because he is found to have better affordability. It is perverse, somewhat like charging a customer more because he/she is a foreigner and or wears branded goods and appears a good one to &#039;ketok&#039;(charge a higher price on). If this is the practise, then I think it is a very ungraceful!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerald, thank You for your response.<br />
When I wrote that means testing is applied across the board, I meant that all patients, rich, poor and inbetween, who wish to be warded in &#8216;low classes wards&#8217;, especially C Class, will be affected.</p>
<p>Ideally, I surmise that costs of goods and services be consistent and commensurate to their qualities constants. Consumers(customers,clients and patients) shall then pay according to the goods and services they choose. If my understanding is right, in the case of our(Singapore) Means Testing, it means that an affordable patient will be receiving less subsidy than patients who are poorer while the services(medical/hospitality) maybe or is the same. When such is the case, then a customer(patient in this case) is made to pay more for the same thing.</p>
<p>Yes, there maybe citizens who feel that the Means Testing seems fair; I beg to differ simply because in the market place, there is no such practices that one pays more for an item(goods/services) simply because he is found to have better affordability. It is perverse, somewhat like charging a customer more because he/she is a foreigner and or wears branded goods and appears a good one to &#8216;ketok&#8217;(charge a higher price on). If this is the practise, then I think it is a very ungraceful!</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23662</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23662</guid>
		<description>Hi Saintmoron - thanks for your comment. Just to point out that even with means testing, patients will still be free to choose to stay in C class wards, which charge less. They just may not receive the full 80% govt subsidy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Saintmoron &#8211; thanks for your comment. Just to point out that even with means testing, patients will still be free to choose to stay in C class wards, which charge less. They just may not receive the full 80% govt subsidy.</p>
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		<title>By: saintmoron</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23655</link>
		<dc:creator>saintmoron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23655</guid>
		<description>My apology folks;
&#039;Most do need &#039;hotel class&#039; accommodation, foods....&#039; should read as: Most do not need &#039;hotel class.....

Again sorry for the error!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My apology folks;<br />
&#8216;Most do need &#8216;hotel class&#8217; accommodation, foods&#8230;.&#8217; should read as: Most do not need &#8216;hotel class&#8230;..</p>
<p>Again sorry for the error!</p>
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		<title>By: saintmoron</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23637</link>
		<dc:creator>saintmoron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23637</guid>
		<description>The Means Testing is going to be exercised across the board, so it is not just the poor that are affected.

Now Singaporeans, rich and poor, no matter how much you have contributed to the National Coffer through your payments of taxes(Income/GST etc) will be treated fairly. What is not fair is a patient being a customer(consumer) is no more allowed to choose lower level medical services which cost less. Imagine that you want lower quality goods and services but is told: &#039;please you can afford better ones, so, we cannot sell you what you want&#039;. Is this reasonable, logical and acceptable?

The Service/Good providers can lower the qualities of their services and goods to commensurates with the prices/payments as per market practices, right? Another area where I think is worth asking is; must a patient take all the recommendations and or treatments from his doctor? Does the patient have his rights to reject use of medicines/treatments and consultations, if he cannot afford them and is willing to deny him/herself the needs?

No one knows if there have been demands by patients that hospitals and their equipments must be of the best in the World. And if our hospitals are so equiped, it is because patients have wanted and demanded for them. Otherwise, I am of the opinion that most patients want the most basic and effective means to have their medical problems solved. Most do need &#039;hotel class&#039; accommodations, foods and services which are available at the many PRIVATE HOSPITALS in our MEDICAL HUB ISLAND, should the patient wants it. 

One of the most contentious issue now is that we have a huge sum of Reserve Funds that are invested to make profits that had snowballed for over a generation. The first generation had probably left the World without benefitted a cent from this State Fund, the next generation does not seem to have any hope too. So the Question will be; can a TINY SUM from the Fund be used for our healthcares and our(the people&#039;s) &#039;feel good&#039; cares? Why not?

Let us just say that most of us if not all, are aware that the healthcares costs problem have never been as serious as our leaders made them out to be. The comments from the Blogosphere are proof that few believed what they have been told(by our leaders).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Means Testing is going to be exercised across the board, so it is not just the poor that are affected.</p>
<p>Now Singaporeans, rich and poor, no matter how much you have contributed to the National Coffer through your payments of taxes(Income/GST etc) will be treated fairly. What is not fair is a patient being a customer(consumer) is no more allowed to choose lower level medical services which cost less. Imagine that you want lower quality goods and services but is told: &#8216;please you can afford better ones, so, we cannot sell you what you want&#8217;. Is this reasonable, logical and acceptable?</p>
<p>The Service/Good providers can lower the qualities of their services and goods to commensurates with the prices/payments as per market practices, right? Another area where I think is worth asking is; must a patient take all the recommendations and or treatments from his doctor? Does the patient have his rights to reject use of medicines/treatments and consultations, if he cannot afford them and is willing to deny him/herself the needs?</p>
<p>No one knows if there have been demands by patients that hospitals and their equipments must be of the best in the World. And if our hospitals are so equiped, it is because patients have wanted and demanded for them. Otherwise, I am of the opinion that most patients want the most basic and effective means to have their medical problems solved. Most do need &#8216;hotel class&#8217; accommodations, foods and services which are available at the many PRIVATE HOSPITALS in our MEDICAL HUB ISLAND, should the patient wants it. </p>
<p>One of the most contentious issue now is that we have a huge sum of Reserve Funds that are invested to make profits that had snowballed for over a generation. The first generation had probably left the World without benefitted a cent from this State Fund, the next generation does not seem to have any hope too. So the Question will be; can a TINY SUM from the Fund be used for our healthcares and our(the people&#8217;s) &#8216;feel good&#8217; cares? Why not?</p>
<p>Let us just say that most of us if not all, are aware that the healthcares costs problem have never been as serious as our leaders made them out to be. The comments from the Blogosphere are proof that few believed what they have been told(by our leaders).</p>
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		<title>By: family man</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23629</link>
		<dc:creator>family man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23629</guid>
		<description>that is the thing about means testing. If you are poor, you know you cannot afford a car and so you take public transport. No one bothers you to ask why you are taking a bus.  
But now, if you know you are not cash rich and want to stay in a C class ward, you have to show proof why you think you are poor. And the government has not shown an iota of fact or numbers to show how many C class patients are currently abusing the system. All they have are anecdotal evidence to prove there is an abuse of the system.
Next up - means testing to MRT - Bus service. Show proof why you need subsidy on public transport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that is the thing about means testing. If you are poor, you know you cannot afford a car and so you take public transport. No one bothers you to ask why you are taking a bus.<br />
But now, if you know you are not cash rich and want to stay in a C class ward, you have to show proof why you think you are poor. And the government has not shown an iota of fact or numbers to show how many C class patients are currently abusing the system. All they have are anecdotal evidence to prove there is an abuse of the system.<br />
Next up &#8211; means testing to MRT &#8211; Bus service. Show proof why you need subsidy on public transport.</p>
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		<title>By: mjuse</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23625</link>
		<dc:creator>mjuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 03:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23625</guid>
		<description>&quot;opening up the floodgates for means-testing for every kind of govt service&quot;

the govt uses the slippery slope argument to justify keeping everything ranging from censorship, racial quotas in hdb estates, legislation against gay people, welfarism etc. just once, i wish someone would point out to them that you can use the slippery slope argument against this stupid means testing as well.

as for not being able to use medisave to pay for insurance riders, i&#039;ve never understood why we can&#039;t do that. can someone enlighten me as to why that is the case?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;opening up the floodgates for means-testing for every kind of govt service&#8221;</p>
<p>the govt uses the slippery slope argument to justify keeping everything ranging from censorship, racial quotas in hdb estates, legislation against gay people, welfarism etc. just once, i wish someone would point out to them that you can use the slippery slope argument against this stupid means testing as well.</p>
<p>as for not being able to use medisave to pay for insurance riders, i&#8217;ve never understood why we can&#8217;t do that. can someone enlighten me as to why that is the case?</p>
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		<title>By: Phatty</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23622</link>
		<dc:creator>Phatty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23622</guid>
		<description>&quot;No accountable govt can get away with such policies, only a dictatorship.&quot;

Huh? So who gave them the mandate in the first place? IMHO, Singaporeans have no rights to complaint. You guys voted them into power due to greed (e.g. lift upgrading etc...and ofi course ignorance). And now you wanna sing the blues? Get over it, be wiser at the next GE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No accountable govt can get away with such policies, only a dictatorship.&#8221;</p>
<p>Huh? So who gave them the mandate in the first place? IMHO, Singaporeans have no rights to complaint. You guys voted them into power due to greed (e.g. lift upgrading etc&#8230;and ofi course ignorance). And now you wanna sing the blues? Get over it, be wiser at the next GE.</p>
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		<title>By: annoymous</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23615</link>
		<dc:creator>annoymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/means-testing-or-comprehensive-medical-insurance/#comment-23615</guid>
		<description>what a load of crap.
it is govt responsibility to provide healthcare whether you are rich or poor.
in fact i feel the rich pay more tax so they should be entitled to even better healthcare.

the govt just trying to shirk responsibility and increase the coffers by cutting funding to the already suffering middle class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what a load of crap.<br />
it is govt responsibility to provide healthcare whether you are rich or poor.<br />
in fact i feel the rich pay more tax so they should be entitled to even better healthcare.</p>
<p>the govt just trying to shirk responsibility and increase the coffers by cutting funding to the already suffering middle class.</p>
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