a community of singaporeans

Allegations against TOC

Posted by theonlinecitizen on February 12, 2008

Dear everyone,

We are aware of the allegations against TOC.

We will be responding shortly to those allegations.

In the meantime, we ask for your patience.

Thank you.


Andrew Loh


10 Responses to “Allegations against TOC”

  1. […] Daily on 12 February 2008 The Phantom Menace. PAP mole in the mist? – The Online Citizen: Allegations against TOC – la nausée: The Sounding of a TOCsin: Blogosphere in a Bog – soc.culture.singapore: Beware TOC […]

  2. salvation army said

    The brotherhood should stand with TOC!

  3. salvation army said

    What I really cannot understand is why threaten to sue people?

  4. Dear Salvation Army,

    TOC did not threaten to sue anyone.


  5. Mr. Goh Bock Seng,

    If Onlinecitizens indeed aspires to be an objective website devoted to serving as an independent or more moderate platform of communications on policies of government to solve problems complained of by many citizens, no one will fault such a web site.

    I personally will serve such a website and will contribute my fair shares of views and opinions with positive thinking and moderation.

    But at a look at what has happened to this website over the past 12 months or so.

    Thinking that it would be such an independent and objective website, I posted there some months back but soon found out that there was a proposal to invite youngpap members like Ephraim to its editorial team.

    I objected to such a move and posted several views on this matter. Since then, I was subjected to many of my posts regularly put on “hold” or “subject to approval” or blocked as seen happening in CNA.

    Anybody with some common sense unaffiliated to youngpap or government who are willing to contribute to such a site will be able to see that it is a scam trying to look like independent but in fact it is controlled surreptitiously by the ruling party which being the partitioned party to such policies it will be discussing simply has no business to be on its editorial team.

    Since then it appears more and more obvious that it has become a site controlled by PAP with some pretentious presence of some WP members which were there just for justifications or show and nothing else.

    Can such a site really be independent or objective.

    I am sure it was a wrong move for Onlinecitizens to try to open itself to such surreptitious control by PAP or youngpap or the establishment which on the face seems independent but below the surface is far from so.

    How could we expect such a site no matter how you try to talk about its independent views to rally thinking citizens to contribute to its deliberations.

    Events since then have further shown that onlinecitizens has become even more connected to the ruling party than was originally thought.

    Let citizens judge for themselves whether such a website can serve the interest of the citizens in the particular context of a nation where the government has taken complete control of all its printed and telecast media.

    Your defence of this website in the light of what has happened does not hold much credibility.

  6. laicf said

    Robert, whatever you think, War of Cyperspace had shifted TOC from mildly anti-PAP a year ago to “Neutral” right now.

    TOC has yet to degenerate into wildly partisan – one way or the other.
    Anyway, the truth will come out as we approach closer to GE2011.
    Then we shall see what TOC stands for isn’ it?
    – Pure white reflecting away all colors?
    – Matt black absorbing all colors?

  7. Laicf,

    There is a lack of progress on the part of the government in cyber-countering our web postings in various sites as far as I could see.

    If anything, the government’s cyber-countering merely rubs salt to the raw wounds and far from endearing the government to the people it only turns them off with a sour after taste.

    It is counter-productive to go against the grain of community conscience, and collective views of the people.

    The only way for the government to win over the people is to admit mistakes and make substantive changes. There is no other way.

    All of us who have spent the past few years giving our views have added something valuable.

    Do carry on your community bonding as these views will eventually guide our future beliefs and actions as a people.

    Remember Durai of NKF was very powerful to even win the personal support of the first ladies but he finally came tumbling down from his high horse because of arrogance. Any other arrogant public servants pretending to be powerful will meet the same fate no less.

    Having said that we need to grow as a people too. We cannot keep criticising without objectives or aim. There is a need to share values and common objectives without which we will be like straws.

    Let us all begin to grow our community bonding and spirit which will take us higher no doubt.

  8. laicf said

    Hi Robert,
    I am pushing the envelope at REACH.
    And some of my postings got deleted within hours ont eh same day, even the same morning.
    And sometimes when I can remember, I duplicate it at Pity it is rather inactive at nowadays.

    cheers, holidays over for me and I am flying back to Macau tomorrow.
    Take care Robert, just remember it is the calm before the storm.
    Passiveness now does not mean ianction on the part of PAP Anti-Insurgency Squad.

    Just recalled how upyrstuk aka gnay aka 4lW….that immediately tagged onto me at YPAP Forum; and when I left YPAP Forum…4lW virtually disappeared..***hahaha***

  9. Laicf,

    I have stopped posting at REACH because I realized that it was just another hypocrisy trying to give a semblance of welcoming feedbacks without any genuine interest to listen to views of the people.

    It is not surprising that your posts get deleted as you mentioned. If you tried to write to the MPs it will be the same. Everything is the same. No change has been made despite all the feedbacks. It is a case of the whole government usurped of its rightful power by some executive resorting to administrative control with salaries and appointment over all elected MPs due to grey areas in our Westminster system.

    I have written to all MPs to suggest a motion be put up to revise the constitution which has been manipulated to suit the power that be such as tweaking of the election process into GRC and superseding by the executive of role of parliament, MPs, judiciary and legislature.

    Only two MPs cared to engage me by some kinds of replies. At the end, when I have presented my sides of the arguments these two being unable to convince me to drop my proposal simply kept mum and the matter stopped there.

    This in short is uniquely Singapore where time stops to suit the power play of one for his own past glorification.

  10. To: All Forumers of onlinecitizens,

    I have read many posts here making allegations against the persons responsible for the running of this onlinecitizens site.

    I personally feel that it will be sad if we are trying to run down such a citizens’ platform of airing their political views vis-a-vis government policies.

    So far give and take this site has been open, objective and has played its role well in wanting to serve the netizens.

    I believe that there should be no fear that the government will be able to dictate any wished on this site. It cannot succeed in making many of its own site like REACH or YOUNGPAP or FORUMSASIAONE compliant so I personally do not think it will succeed in making this site compliant.

    The internet is too big and too complex for the government to succeed in such an effort. It has been counter-productive for Minister Lui Tuck Yew so far in countering the netizens’ views about politics or government policies in many websites.

    This is only one of the many websites. Many pro-government postings eventually have been debunk as far as I can see losing credibility. Many cyber-countering agents have either toned down or withdrawn being unable to rebut the more serious views posted by many.

    So let us take this fact as a more positive sign that this site can grow together with others and not beat a retreat by running down anyone involved in running this site.

    We should continue to post here with substance and facts and raise people’s reasonable standards and expectations and make them known to the authority.

    Perhaps the government will need more time but we should not give up just because it is not listening to some views yet. There is nothing we can do except to be patient and we should continue to post our views critically objectively and truthfully without any intention to hurt anyone personally.

    If we do and resort to name calling against anyone here I think we will only grow weaker as a community and encourage the government to go bolder with trying to control the internet.

    So based on common sense that government has no interest to control or infiltrate this site based on my own investigation, I feel that it is time for put down the hatcher and start to support one another as long as the contents are good and posts are reasonable and objective and do serve the people’s interests and make government take note.

    It takes time to build up such a responsible website. So don’t lose it by posting any negative comments here until the full facts are properly made known.

    From my own investigations, I have found that whoever being invited to join the team here are voluntarily done with a view to have more diverse views and policies and there is no political motives behind.

    They may agree or disagree with my investigations. As long as invitation is out of volition of this site owner and not from the outside then whoever happen to be the pro-pap invited can still be controlled by the site owner. It is a matter of setting up proper team with proper editorial policies to prevent serving the private agenda of anyone. In the longer term, such a website will have diverse and objective views of all people, and win over the respect of all citizens at large.

    It is impossible to exclude anyone political but we need a strong team with strong leaders who will enforce such policies as stated.

    As I have found this site as politically independent,without any political intrigues here, I will contribute my fair shares of views and opinions here as citizens’ two cents worth.

    I leave it to your decisions to support this site by active involvement here and do not give up what is good so far due to minor hiccup.

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