Mas Selamat’s escape – Government shifting the blame to Singaporeans’ “complacency”
Posted by theonlinecitizen on April 5, 2008
Andrew Loh
If one were to follow the local media, one would be aghast at the gradual and subtle shifting of blame for alleged JI terrorist Mas Selamat Kastari’s escape.
It is propaganda at its most sublime.
It is propaganda because one, the government here in Singapore is all-encompassing and two, the local media is totally and completely beholden to the government. The media is used daily to lead public discussion and debate in the direction that the government wants it to go.
It is thus not unexpected that in a matter as serious as this escape the media would be employed to “hush things down” when ascribing blame to the government officials responsible for the “lapse”.
And so, we now witness a shameful shifting of blame – from the minister in charge, DPM Wong Kan Seng, to “Singaporeans’ complacency”.
It is also significant that this shift is spearheaded by the oldest member in the Cabinet, MM Lee Kuan Yew himself. Indeed MM Lee has spoken twice about this “complacency” – the first time on March 7:
“I think it’s a very severe lesson of complacency that we are confident we have this man sized up.” (Straits Times)
It is important to note that MM Lee avoided mentioning any names at all – including that of the Home Affairs Minister Wong. Instead MM Lee ascribed the “complacency” to his “custodians”.
On April 5, MM Lee again spoke about the escape but this time pointing the finger at Singaporeans in general:
“Complacency sets in when a people have not suffered any shock or setback for a long time, as in Singapore without jihadist terror attacks, although we have ceaselessly talked about it and prepared out (sic) defence.”
“Most people believe that bad things will happen to others, not to themselves.” (Link)
And to cement this shifting of blame, the Straits Times quoted PAP MP Lim Wee Kiak:
“People’s Action Party MP Lim Wee Kiak called complacency a ‘side-effect’ of an overly successful Government and civil service.
‘This has bred a dependency mentality in our population who will blame the civil service and Government if any of their needs are not met,’ he noted.”
The shift is complete : The escape of Mas Selamat Kastari is due to Singaporeans’ complacency because “most people believe that bad things will happen to others, not to themselves”. And because of Singaporeans’ “dependency mindset”, they “blame the civil service and Government”. But no worries, this complacency is “a ‘side-effect’ of an overly successful Government and civil service”!
Game. Set. Match.
Singaporeans are to blame for the escape.
Who else should be responsible since we already have “an overly successful Government and civil service”? (Emphasis mine) Surely, they cannot be held responsible for Singaporeans’ “dependency mindset” and “complacency”!
If one recalls, one would also remember that the initial propaganda strategy was to use the escape to trumpet how “Singaporeans ace test of racial cohesion”, to quote a Straits Times headline. The ST reported NTUC Chief Lim Swee Say thus:
“Minister Lim Swee Say, who described the escape as a test in inter-racial cohesion, said Singaporeans passed it ‘with flying colours’.”
In all of the local media’s reports about the jailbreak, none, as far as I am aware of, has mentioned Minister Wong’s responsibility. Even the Prime Minister himself shrugged off the JI leader’s “toilet break” with “What to do? It’s happened.”
And so, it would seem that two groups of people are to blame: Mas Selamat’s custodians and Singaporeans in general.
As for the ministers in charge – Wong Kan Seng and his 2nd in command Ho Peng Kee, well, they are part of an “overly successful Government”. So how can they be held responsible?
Watch the local media go into overdrive to preserve and protect our extraordinary ministers in government – where lapses are easily and conveniently ascribed to others, even to those who had nothing to do at all with Mas Selamat.
In fact, most Singaporeans, I would bet, did not even know he existed until he gave his guards the slip on a fateful February 27.
But nonetheless, ignorance is not a defence.
Singaporeans are to blame for the escape.
Now, stop being complacent!
—————————
theonlinecitizen 
Eugene said
Does this imply that Singaporeans are also complacent in giving PAP its mandate during elections? Should the Opposition be given more chance to avoid complacency?
antz said
ya i think we should give the ppl in white some wake-up-call just as what happen to their counterpart in m’sia in the future GE.
CelluloidReality said
Right.
Well, 66% of us have been guilty of complacency haven’t we.
Simple conclusion. If we’ve made a mistake, time to rectify it.
Expected Analysis said
As usual, PAP govt is always looking for scapegoats and excuses to distract calls for them to take responsibility with appropriate action – sack or resign – whoever is responsible.
Complacent or negligence cannot be condoned with a simple excuse. To expect a pardon from Singaporeans after self-justifying ridiculous pay hike is simply absurd and immature.
PAP govt is only good at window dressing. Up to now, it’s still LKY doing all the talking. The PM should ask himself an honest question – “Am I justified to be the PM when I have to depend on my fatherly MM to direct policies and clean up the mess as well?”
The astronomical salary of all the PAP ministers and MPs just doesn’t justify Singaporeans’ tax contribution, not with this standard of transparency and accountability. It’s a SHAM – E!
Meepokman said
This is the best they can come up with?
Lets stay focused on asking WKS where is Mat salamat and how did he escape , I think that is the Million dollar question
Jackson said
Malaysians have done it, so do the Taiwanese. Singaporeans next?
Remember 66.6% for the 2006 elections. ‘666’ is a devil’s number.
I think Singaporeans who voted for PAP should by now realise that one-party rule is never good, as always stated by Chiam See Tong, but they just don’t listen. Now with rising food and oil prices, we shall see how much longer can the pro-ruling party people endure.
funny said
I love this. This comment from MM will probably tilt the balance for years to come. I am glad!!
elfredinario said
Wow~ It’s getting too ‘creative’.
This clearly is a general concept the MM has delivered. He has been delivering similar concepts before Mas Selemat escaped.
Pulling out a few paragraphs and try to put some 罪名 or what may not be that nice… …
This ‘joke’ may have gone a little too far.
Shifting blame for a gahmen to the people as the article is presented in such manner, is equivalent to corruption accusation of a gahmen in which there is an accusation that the gahmen seeks to work against the interests of the people with the relevance of a few paragraphs of such ‘weak’ inference.
Where in this case, whatever MM would have said can be taken as a hint that he is malicious and ill-intent in his conduct just merely taking incomplete portions to justify.
My sincere view of goodwill here: Be careful…
Overseas Singaporean said
2 words to describe them.
F**king.Disgrace
Alan Wong said
I thot MM’s responsibility is that of an adviser and mentor.
Why is it that our world class PM still need his nanny father to come out to speak on behalf of him ? And of all matters, to remind us about complacency.
Do we really need a PM ? Or the MM ? Or neither ?
Low said
Sounds like they are treating us like kids…ha..ha…So, people, behave like kids then…
If only they have more humility, and not point fingers…yes, worse, point at the very people who feed them monthly with taxpayers’ money… sad, sad…
patriot said
We the People(Citizens) have indeed been complacent for decades, how else does one explain for the situation we(people) are in now? How have we allowed ourselves to be manipulated, exploited and teased by our leaders? Think about it.
Now that we have reached a point of no return, the awakening is way too late. Because our leaders are also caught in the expressway of no return but to enrich themselves and take flights when the opportune time arrives for them to do so while we will be left high and dry.
Now is the time that we must protect ourselves. How can this be done? Take flight yourself first if you can. Take collective actions to defy unreasonable policies, e.g. avoid buying from state-owned retailers, household items, insurance etc. Avoid consuming anything not essential and cripple the market and son. Let us die first and get reborn (xian si er hou sheng).
Fever Guy said
elfredinario,
I read the ST papers today. I got the same concept that the blame is the people not the gahmen. Am i wrong to say that? If something so crap is written and reading it makes you sick then the editor should be hanged. World class paper right? Writing rubbish can be cordoned? If million dollars minister generalise the mas selamat issue and not clearly state the core problems and answers then why speak in the first place. Talk is cheap these days especially from million minister. Any insight you have regarding to the ST paper today on this issue? Answer is NONE. Hope we all can see the light at the end of tunnel with this gahmen.
Daniel said
“This ‘joke’ may have gone a little too far.
Shifting blame for a gahmen to the people as the article is presented in such manner, is equivalent to corruption accusation of a gahmen”
elfredinario,
so who start the joke first ? The joke is on us not on the gahmen. Remember those claim about increase GST to help the poor, increase HDB cost to reduce queue, giving themselves millions at the expense of citizen,… So what can we deduce from our gahmen ? Honesty ? Integrity ? Credible ?
Haven’t you notice too how our gahmen doesn’t even appear to celebrate new Year with the citizen anymore ? Are they too apathetic or ashame to face the citizen ?
If you call this article a joke then what about those remarks from Ministers and incredulous mouthpiece from ShitTime ?
How about the joke about the excessive surplus that now remains unanswered ? Has anyone notice that this surplus might end in setting up more joke hub like earthquake disaster center, cancer center etc ? (Why is it not even setup before the hike ? So why the superficial act ?) The question is obvious that this announcement only come after surplus announcement. Didn’t the surplus should be used to help the middle-income and the poor like in HOng Kong ?
So who is the real joker ?
Dingo said
Great article Andrew! It’s articles like these that can effectively stave off these rumors about TOC being an online propaganda arm of the PAP.
Gary Teoh said
well, singapore is still governed by the longest serving minister in the world,almost 50 years in power.There is no point having a lame PM who I think is not a talented person.A lame PM like Abdullah should be voted out.Other capable man can take over.If government is not wrong, why wong kan seng apologised on the 27 Feb ? this governemnt is not honest, why should we vote them in? why should we pay million dollar to them ?
Gary Teoh said
another point, who is this lim wee kiat, is he a walk over MP ? Does he got experience to serve the ppl,and lim swee say,another clown trying to talk kok,the escape is a serious flaw, dont come and tell us, it is a test of community bonding all the nonsense.better keep quiet, like GCT
gleechoo said
Hoho…Singaporeans blamed? Who are the Singaporeans? The nationals only? What about those in leadership position say the MPs and the like…are these leaders not paid to maintain Singapore’s security? Pardon me…are these not the true blue Singaporeans?
National Education: On Complacency « Die neue Welle said
[…] disagree with theonlinecitizen’s point that the blame has been shifted. Indeed, at a point of time where finger-pointing would have been most rampant, the major […]
elfredinario said
Fever Guy,
What insight do you want??? Insight that Mas Selamat runs, the guard fired, Wong resigns, PM quits, MM disappears, and we all celebrate?
I don’t understand Singaporeans…
Why you all think like that…?
What if Wong’s domestic servant catch Mas Selamat? Promote the servant, Wong, promote PM, promote MM???
What insight do you all want???
I feel most of you are just interested to make noises… for the sake of it.
What? You expect MM Lee to scold DPM Wong like a kid, or just terminate him? Come on… THis is not how politics nor gahmen-nance work.
MM’s not only talking about this incident when he is talking about complacency and the likes. He also talked about the population target and so on. Actually, Singaporeans… are an issue in itself. It’s not just Mas Selamat.
Sigh… Actually, what will the future become with Singaporeans like this? Hahahahaha…
http://elfredinario.wordpress.com/
Gerald said
This was EXACTLY what I sensed when I read the ST articles! If I were to infer from my MP Lim Wee Kiak’s statements, Mas Selamat escaped because I was too complacent and haven’t prepared an emergency pack at home in case of blackouts.
Watch how the blame is going to be localised to the immediate guards at the detention centre. WKS will never get blamed. He only gets the credit when things go right.
Perhaps Singaporeans really are to be blamed. We have been complacent in electing the PAP election after election, and not putting enough opposition MPs in Parliament to serve as a check and balance.
sgcynic said
What is the point of having an “independent” inquiry? Govt to give “full” account of “how Mas Selamat escaped”? Old man already given his own account!
Awaken Citizen said
This shows that the old man is going senile. He has lost his power
of reasoning. He sounds very incoherent. Most probably he is
suffering from “Diminished Responsibility”, behaving and thinking
just like a small kid. This is a mental condition that usually
happens to older people who have enjoyed too much power.
I think time is running out for him.
patriot said
So, folks, forget about Mas Selamat, forget about terrorist threats, just remind yourselves YOU are under threats for survivals. We cannot take care of things they are paid ridiculously to do. Why do we need a government for? They have a duty, they are paid to do the job, yet we are blame for their failures! Joke by all means, but never allow ourselves to be taken as bloody fools!
tiredman said
Blame, Blame and Blame….
I do understand that we need to change ourselves to suit the environment. However, I felt that our gahman has “over used” this tool and is over exploiting the locals. This is very significant when the gahman put the whammy especially on the local males. If they are classified under “lower level citizen”, they are even worse off. Overall, for these few years I felt that the top has disadvantaged the citizen with all sorts of money squeezing techniques. Hmm… Like as follow:
FTs
Opportunities that are created to all the PEOPLE who work in Singapore are mostly taken up by the FTs. The big increase in the number of FTs in Singapore is good enough to prove this. These people, most probably are very rich. They upset the market by being able to effort much more on the necessities. Are they a factor to inflation? I felt it is highly possible. Demand goes up, prices goes up. So, who do you want to blame on?
GST
Increase GST to help the poor? I don’t think so. If the rich felt that it is too expensive to spend, they will spend less. Will they go hungry in the end? It is a very likely a NO answer. However, a poor who are fighting for survival day and night will feel a hard pinch on his buttock. Should necessities become get very expensive for them, they would likely go hungry. Does the one time rebate effective? Come on, per unit tax versus lump sum subsidy… base on this theory, who will be in the loosing end? So, whose fault? Is it the citizen’s fault because they are born here?
RICE
If I did not make a mistake, one of the ministers (I think so) says the government cannot cap the price of the rice or the seller would had a hard time as they cannot survive. Emm… there is one question on this sentence. Are you telling me that you want the seller to look after the citizens by reducing the price? It sounds like it is the seller who will be giving the subsidy and not the gahman. So whose fault? Is it the government of the other countries?
Mas Selamat
How about this case “Mas Selamat’s escape”? I begin to wonder who the ones who say they are the elites and deserve a high pay cheque? They must be very good in handling the case. They must be effective and productive right? So where is Mas Selamat now? It has been a month and they still can’t find him. Since we have paid them so much, I believe we have the right to demanded for some reasons from them right? So, blame on us this time?
Then how about,
Transport?
Babies?
Citizenship?
etc?
They are the elites and make lots of money so, it is not right to ask the public to pay more because we are paying top monies for top people and we expect top results. Is this too much to ask? So, who should we blame?
Rachel Zeng said
MM Lee must be thinking in his wee old brain that this game of passing the parcel is fun.
Indeed we are complacent. So sad, I am going to face the wall and think about my complacency and how it has led to the escape among all other things.
(Oh bother)
Then again yes indeed we might be complacent as Singaporeans and maybe he meant it in the general context, but at the wrong time, for the wrong interview (probably).
Remember folks, the government doesn’t deserve to be blamed for our complacency because Lee says so.
AY said
You all can talk till the cows come home!!!!!
We Singaporeans already know is that these Government, Civl Servants, Ministers and the like are a bunch of CLOWNS, IDIOTIC MORONS – PERIOD!!!!!
Pointing a finger at Singaporeans when three fingers pointing back at them. Where is their accountability and integrity – GONE DOWN THE DRAIN!!!!!!!!!!
Weijia said
I think our “leaders” have really lost the respect of the citizens. would you respect your boss who obviously made a mistake but dare not own up? would you respect your boss who gives himself a payrise because if not he can always “go somewhere else”. would you respect your boss who only show face when things are going well?
you’ve heard of fair weather friends. let me introduce you to fair weather leaders. now who’s the quitter i ask you?
nicholas said
Complacency starts from the top. To blame us or throw the responsibility to us citizens is totally uncalled for.
Another thing to note is why must MM Lee do the talking here? What is the point of having his useless and spineless son as PM for what? As a puppet for his father? At least MM Lee is not perceive as weak and dare to speak up or take prompt action, even if he is in a wrong and the actions are unpopular. His son is absolutely useless and only know how to siam all the negatives and take credit for all the positives. Is this the kind of PM we want for Singapore?
The more I look at Lee Hsien Loong the more I think he is not good enough to be PM at all. He seems like always in need of assurance, in need of well rehearsed stage with everything going his way then he can perform. He is someone who is born with a silver spoon so that is not a surprise at all. This is a person who does not show and give confidence at all.
The Mas Selamat Kastari’s escape is not just about complacency, it exposed the weakness of PM Lee that he is not a leader at all at times of crisis.
Pseudonymity said
I only have two words for the likes of Lee Kuan Yew, his ilk and the local media for conveniently turning the tables and shifting the blame on us: Pathetic F***ers!
Fever Guy said
elfredinario,
Maybe i should thank MM Lee for his enlightenment that singaporeans and myself have been complacent all these years (regret wont happen again in GE2011). I should also thank you for your great insight that MM Lee did not mean the nonsense he said( we are the nonsense).
So what then is the crux of the issue? Or is it a non issue? If thats the case why bother to publish for us peasant to read and feel the disrespect shown to a citizen? Anyway either i am too good understanding the propagada from it or you are a brain wash pap sinkies. If my non-political friend can understand the shit being sprouded from the news that we citizens are to be blamed and why cant you? I read your blogs they are full of PAP shits…thats why your political understanding are just like them. People like u should not be here go join the P65 blogs and their smelly vomit messages.
Noise? It wont be noise come next election….it will be voice….a true citizen ‘s VOICE! Anyway TOC is a good place for all of us to share and everyone is sharing and that is not noise …. if you hate it go somewhere else…like FM ‘s blog.
CB LEE said
better remember all the above grievances SINGAPOREAN. better still tattoo it on yr forehead & crave it into yr bones. be a propangada machine yourself and tell more singaporeans about all the unjust done by this garmen. vote them out next election. time for a change for my dear SINGAPORE.
Seeking Salvation said
The Old Geese is losing his marbles in protecting the bumbling idiot of the the shorty Wong Kan Seng. These overpaid fools
who would not trust Singaporean in the first place by placing his stooge ISD to guard Mas Selamat together with elite foreign Gukhas to ensure loyalty. Look at the good picture Sporean all their residence are guard by Gurkas. So all 66pct of you complacent Singaporeans do wake up for the next election and vote these overpaid jokers out so that they would blame complacent Singaporeans should they lose their seats
another view said
could it be that the Mas commision of inquiry is already finished and this is all the COI is willing to publish to the public? That it is the citizens fault? We all know the MM Lee has an uncanny connection to such reports.
Next question, in the bigger scheme of things, do you think MM Lee has done for damage to PAP, or mahathir has done more damage to BN? Close match isn’t it??
another view said
if COI concludes that Mas actually is innocent of such terrorist charges, due to lack of concrete evidence (like the Marxist Catholics) could the COI be allowed to issue such a statement? It has been stated that one of the members is a distinguished judge and I believe he will be impartial. Or would such a person finally go missing with the truth, like what has happended to Mas….I wish…
another view said
It is good. More than 30 days already, and the COI report should be out very soon! Is there a political wrangling over what should be published? Yesterday, there was a good article over a judge who excused himself from the case over Raffles Town club as he was an ex-member – so as to be seen to be impartial. Maybe Wong Kan Seng can see the side swipe by SPH on his commission, finally. It was deafening clear 🙂 Maybe after this Mas selamat thing, we can all look at how our govt is not helping citizens with inflation…. (it happened, what to do? – classic!)
Lky errors said
if LKY makes an error, who can correct him? His son? or SM Goh, or is he untouchable? If he makes a statement like this blaming the citizens and protecting Wong Kan Sing, can we the citizens impeach him? or make him apologise? or resign? Or like Mao Tze Tung, we can only look at him with awe and/or disgust. Seriously, he has already said something to the effect that Suharto brought wealth to millions of citizens, what is wrong if he was slightly tainted…. so I guess he will always be right, including his GIC investment in Citibank shares.
Veefer said
Yes, I, a citizen of Singapore, am responsible for MSK’s escape from Whitley Road Detention Centre. I am responsible because I allowed PAP to win the previous election. Hence, to take responsibility for my mistake, I shall resign from Singapore at the earliest opportunity when another country accepts my application for citizenship. ( A bit difficult to be a stateless person….. hence the delay, my sincerest apologies)
tales from the creep said
With their current track record.
I am sure if they had some kinda of snap elections, the ruling party would suffer big time.
With things not going so well for them, things can only get worse before they get better.
CHANGE!
Gary Teoh said
we can impeach old Lee thru ballot box.Let Tanjung Pagar falls to the opposition, like John howard.Don’t give him a good life.We like to see him retire with dignity, but he chose not to, we can throw him out like Penang ppl throw Koh Tso Khun out
j said
rice. someone mentioned rice, and i think it’s a very good argument. considering our huge budget surplus, it would not be inconceivable for the gahmen to subsidise the cost of rice (it’s not like we can’t afford it); that will Really show us to be a “caring” first world society, where not only the leaders benefit (if we don’t have million(s) dollar paychecks, at least we get–rice at the same price).
i understand that sometimes it isn’t a good idea to fiddle too much with the free market, but–what are they thinking? do they think citizens will HOARDE rice, just because we aren’t paying inflated rates for it? huh.
gahmen PR is sadly lacking. a perfectly good chance to contain citizen unhappiness and they passed it up with their complacency.
CelluloidReality said
J,
Fiddling with the free market to retain political dominance..
Hmm, where have I heard this before?
Oh yes. Look around us.
CelluloidReality said
Complacency comes about when there’s no effective competition. This is a basic notion taught in Economics and Business 101.
When you have no one on your ass, and you have everyone covering your six, of course it’s natural to slow down and take things hunkydory and easy lah.
Translate that to a strategic outlook and you fear for the leadership of this nation..
Expected Analysis said
Dear fellow Singaporeans,
Something is very wrong here.
We need TOC’s clarification why “You Speak” was taken down after appearing for a short time on this site. It was intended to be a regular Sunday feature. I visited this site yesterday morning (5/4/08) and was greeted with “You Speak” which highlighted some of the opinions posted this week. It was taken down when I revisited the site an hour or so later.
The following post happened to be the one at the very top. What happened to “You Speak” column, TOC?????
Next issue: COE
COE was started with a legitimate reason – to control the growth of vehicle population. However, it had an unintended (maybe intended) windfall for the govt.
Ridiculously, COE prices were chased up to the sky for some years and govt was flushed with big surpluses. Very profitable indeed, selling just paper.
The Asian financial crisis served as an awakening for Singaporeans. COE prices tapered down to under $30K on average. Many car owners downgraded, selling their cars which were exported. Govt had to refund big amount of money for the remaining unused life of COEs. Painful for govt as profits had to be refunded.
Out of the blue, the COE rebate system was changed. Rebate was amended a couple of times to make it unfeasible for export, naturally, to stop the outflow of profit.
ERP was hatched to make up for the big drop in profit. As expected, ERP was gradually extended to many other places besides CBD areas.
COE prices have been hovering below $20K for some time now. This is probably the price resistance level that people are prepared to pay. The number of COE will be reduced as well.
How to generate more profit? Extend ERP to whichever location that people complained of jams. Now, even housing estates will be covered as well.
As reported, there’ll be close to 80 ERP gantry points in operation come 7/4/08. ERP population will continue to grow to cover almost every part of S’pore. Reason? At any given time of the day, a well populated area will experience jams.
A simple calculation will reveal just how much revenue can be generated through ERP.
Ultra conservative example:
80 gantry x 10,000 vehicles x $1.00
=$800,000 per day x 24 working days
=$19,200,000 per mth x 12 mths
=$230,400,000 a year
Eventually, the minimum ERP charge will be $2.00 as reported. You can do your own calculations and you know this example is just a fraction of the real numbers.
ERP was not meant to reap profit for the govt?
Food for thought:
1. What’s the rationale for reducing COE rebates when COE is meant to control vehicle population?
2. To control vehicle population is either allow lower growth or no
growth. This will do away with the need to implement ERP nationwide.
3. To encourage greater use of public transport, why subject taxis to ERP charges? Didn’t the govt call on citizens to switch to public transport? Taxis serve as public transport in every sense. For every taxi registered, a private car is deprived of its priviledge.
Lately, Raymond Lim hinted that govt is considering cash rebate for unused portion of COE. Another artificially good move because the rebate system has been much reduced.
This is how and why our ministers are rewarded with multi-million salary + bonuses.
antz said
well,to make it simple just oust them in the next GE.
rice said
yes, i hear that billions of reserves are kept for times of national emergency. If the current inflation rate and price of rice is not an emergency, I really do not know what is? Even if a Tsunami or earthquake hits singapore, do we expect MM Lee to help singaporeans? (Forget about LHL, now we all know he is a puppet to MM Lee after this Mas selamat statements) They will probably ‘target their help’ to only the bottoms 5 percent of the population and heck care about the others. What is the aim of keeping the reserves? I think only to allow MMLee Ho Ching and gang to punt the market with citibank, UBS stocks. No, not for Singaporeans, cos it will ‘distort the economy and the free market” Sigh. And thost idiots keep telling ua not to buy or hoard rice – we know there is enough supplies, but was also know NTUC will raise the price – so we hoard not because there is insufficinet supply, but becasue NTUC will slowly but surely raise the price……our ministers are dumbo….
theonlinecitizen said
Hi Expected Analysis,
I’d like to apologise for the “disappearance” of You Speak. Please allow me to explain.
The new You Speak was intended for Sunday. However, WordPress (which we are on) revamped its dashboard on Saturday. This new dashboard resulted in YouSpeak being published a day earlier. The new dashboard’s timestamp feature was cancelled (as far as we know) and YouSpeak was inadvertently published yesterday.
As YouSpeak was intended as a summary of comments posted on TOC, Sunday would be the best day to publish it – once we have picked the comments, from Friday to Saturday.
We took it down because of this reason.
However, it is still not up because we had to delete the posting as there was no timestamp feature to allow us to time the posting to appear on Sunday. And we could not manually do it as we’re all busy.
We will introduce it again next Sunday – once we have gotten a hang of the new dashboard.
*You also notice that some of the features on our left sidebar (such as “The relentless rising cost of living”) are also missing. We will rectify it as soon as we can.
Please accept my apology.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
elfredinario said
Fever Guy,
Just becos you are not happy with PAP you shouldn’t direct your animosity at me.
I m pretty much neutral myself, and I am wondering should I remain as a member the coming renewal after this one… …
But the issue is pretty simple… If this is a demonstration, and you people have gone into a riot by getting into illogical outburst… Which is not wise, because this gives the party precise opportunity to clamp you down.
What MM said is not logically wrong, but if you infer that he is stating Mr Wong has no wrong by what he simply said, it’s like I say: USA is careless with China.
Then people infer that I hate USA, or people infer that I hate China… Or people can shoot that I am saying China wanna attack USA…
This is pretty bad… …
I am just saying, if you guys wanna make a point… Do so in more proper manner. And this article is… not solidly supported in my frank view.
MM just passed a general statement, if that becomes a big issues being so embellished and looking set to gain momentum… Shouldn’t we be more careful?
It’s not as if your spouse is lost or your kids are killed for such emotional-like outbreak. Being radical to this extent is not helping~!
And which part of my blog you have views on, you are welcomed to argue. It’s not as if I don’t allow you to~?
Do as you see fit then.
http://elfredinario.wordpress.com/
gleechoo said
I read some comments with shame.
Comments should be made on the issue and not on a person.
The issue in question is: “Complacency sets in when a people have not suffered any shock or setback for a long time, as in Singapore without jihadist terror attacks, although we have ceaselessly talked about it and prepared out (sic) defence.”
I agree with the writer that prior to the shocking news, I didn’t know Kastari existed. I only remember vaguely reading about terrorist suspect being napped around Yishun MRT but…
What form of terrorisms strike in Singapore tomorrow? I cannot imagine but I hope and expect our relevant authorities are prepared. Many times I wonder if we are prepared for this in the event…
Fever Guy said
elfredinario,
Rest assure that ppl like me are not stupid to go riot just becoz of an old man(anyway GOD/Satan is calling him home soon). Clamp down? on what grounds? It is ppl like you that sprout fear and now spreading it here to the bloggers. My advise to you get your membership renewed so that u can continue the brainwashing process for more years. For a multi-million dollar minister to speak generally is like telling your son ice-cream is bad for u period. Do what a multi million dollar civil servant should do, provide more detailed information or just keep the mouth shut. For the many years in that club of yours what have you gained? To even question yourself the need to renew speaks volume of your association. Or have u being enlightened to this make believe dream? Stop kidding yourself and get to reality. Our country is treading on dangerous waters due to lack of counter checks and accountability. We all can still continue to dream in a make believe singapore or we should all wise up and share the truth (all is not well with the system/gov). Anyway such a talent like you should have been enlightened to the fact that this gahmen is not world class at all…mediocre at best.
elfredinario said
Fever Guy,
There is no perfect party in this world. And even Mark Ma who seemingly wanna do something for Taiwan has KMT to handle. Premier Badawi tried to refrain from Mahathir tactics but still has to be weighed down by UMNO that Mahathir left for him.
PAP is no exception; I m too blunt… and too nice a person and may not be suitable to be an ikan bilis member of political party for now, perhaps. There is nothing wrong, and nothing to make a molehill out of.
I know you won’t listen to me. But you should understand that under ISA, there is virtually no need for any basis to detain you. Not that I am spreading fear, but from a political point of view, when a point has gone beyond a certain limits, it becomes disturbances. MM Lee is not Tommy Lee Jones… He’s a ‘national interest’.
On this basis, Dr Balaji can even shut TOC down.
Look…
Politics is not the way you guys see it to be.
What I am trying to say is pretty simple, alright. Refrain from being too radical. SDP pple, I can understand. But TOC has to maintain a balance.
The remark is on papers, I read it. Just general concept in a few statements. If we become a hurricane and being too offensive as a result, what do you expect the old man to react?
He’d fight back! He always does. Why need to fight when you can express your views and he gets the point and replies?
I am not a corrupt. What do you expect I’d get after so many years in PAP? You r asking a silly question. There is nothing I’d like to gain but to stay clear. So I’d appreciate if anyone in the party can help resettle us.
You see, Fever Guy… Your side won’t listen… fine. Their side won’t yield… fine. As such, it’s heading into a fight. If you wanna fight… fine. Fight when we are not around.
Are you not aware that if the gahmen really start clamping down… you’d likely get those innocent voices online implicated as well?
There is no respect for him, he’d have no respect for you… This is going nowhere…
http://elfredinario.wordpress.com/
Andrew Loh said
Apparently I am not the only one who got the inference in what MM Lee said:
Very poor service by the Straits Times (Mr Wang)
Playing the conspiracy game (Insane Poly)
CelluloidReality said
Elfred, mind taking your beef elsewhere?
Let’s stick to the topic at hand.
Danke.
theonlinecitizen said
A comment left on Mr Wang’s blog:
Anonymous said…
I think MM Lee and the government basically want to have their cake and eat it (at the expense of the citizens of course).
Reading between the lines, what MM Lee is saying is: Singaporeans have become complacent because through an “overly successful” government, they have built up unrealistic expectations of what the government can do.
So Singaporeans should not always expect the government to have a perfect record in everything – in this case, the escape of an ISD detainee who is an alleged terrorist.
From this, MM Lee then uses the specious argument the government can’t be FULLY acountable for this debacle because you the citizens had unreasonably high expectations of the government. This is your typical PAP thinking- heads I win, tails I also win.
I wouldn’t be the least surprised if the COI report came up with a knock-out line like this: It is only to be expected that in spite of our constant vigilance, there would eventually be a lapse in our security efforts against terrorism. We have learned from this episode and tightened our security protocols. Singaporeans should now CLOSE RANKS AND MOVE ON!
Gerald said
I think Singaporeans HAVE closed ranks. Apart from a few blindly pro-PAP jokers, I don’t know of anyone who isn’t in full agreement that this was a major boo boo by the government, and the government alone.
Expected Analysis said
Hi Andrew,
Noted your explanation done on behalf of TOC. Simply hope that TOC is not manipulated by the PAP in any way.
Fellow Singaporeans,
We are too educated and smart to take to the streets over matters expressed here. In the crying lack of PAP govt’s
transparency and accountability, we as citizens have every right to question and demand for revelation. Failing to do so reflects our own foolishness and immaturity, as good as living in the dark.
It would be good that PAP’s members visit TOC regularly to get the real feedback of the citizens. It will be even better if they reply to our postings.
Coining lame excuses are only good for PAP diehard supporters, not for those who are inquisitive and well-informed.
To put the blame on complacency and negligence without any responsible action is simply holding MR COMPLACENCY AND MR NEGLIGENCE responsible for this fiasco.
This is the so-called standard of our self-proclaimed first world govt – RIDICULOUSLY HIGH PAY WITHOUT LIABILITIES.
sgcynic said
F1 racer crashes into bollards. Dozens of spectators dead or injured. Organisers point finger: “Those in the audience were complacent”.
elfredinario said
CelluloidReality,
So… You wanna lay siege on the old man…?
I am not pro-PAP~ I am neutral!
But if you people want a war, you might end up getting one.
Until the next topic then…
http://elfredinario.wordpress.com/
shoestring said
Another classic example of passing the buck on the sly – I wasn’t the one who started it. It’s you who is over-reacting to mere words I said, and laying siege. I didn’t want war, you did. So, don’t blame me for declaring war and clamping down on you.
It’s not my fault. It’s yours.
What’s new?
Gary Teoh said
Go ahead ask Balaji to shutdown TOC, I will be very happy to exercise my rights come 2010 or 11.I wait only, pls be patient,wait only, ask the old man don’t talk so much, the more you talk, the more ppl get angry,follow GCT, talk less, every month, collect 3 over million,shake legs,MM or SM redundant post, which country in the world has this post??!!!!
patriot said
When the Citizenry or the Government needs to have a war with each other, it only goes to show that there is a great failure in the management of the Country. And who should be responsible for the Failure? COMPLACENCY AGAIN? And who is complacent in this case?
James Michael Parthi said
The irony of the statment made none other than MM shows how manipulative and deceptive his speech could be,lets not forget people,MM is a lawyer,he has painstakingly crafted an eloquent & subtle speech to cover his own losses.That’s what the ruling coalition party does,don’t they?
Besides,lets look at something else,has any one of you noticed during the “Great Escape” or rather after the bloke was on the loose(there’s no evidence to indicate if he really did escape,only Home Affairs Ministry should know the entire truth & drama),our PM,SM & MM went MIA!What does that tell you?The silence,the tranquility is deafening!Maybe i should host a new programme : JMP – Justice Must Prevail!Cheers!
CelluloidReality said
Elfred,
It’s not about party politics or individual witchunts without due cause.
It’s about a simple case of “if your men stuff up, you as the commander don’t gloss it over”.
Well, our dear MM said yes the guards are negligent, but it doesn’t help if he attempts to ascribe more blame outside of the AOR.
Don’t get yourself in a tizzy lah.
Cheers.
Dingo said
Gleechoo,
For me to accept 100% that ANYONE is a criminal or terrorist, I would need to see him go through fair trial first. Not some cut-short method like ISA.
It’s all our fault « the world is thinking.. said
[…] Then imagine, after more than a month of futile hunting, the government speaks. Not to finally apologise for the apparent huge blunder, but to blame its citizens for the mess-up. They tell the citizens to stop “breeding a dependency mentality” and we are “being complacent when they believe that the Government will take care of all security matters.“ […]
elfredinario said
Shoestring,
Stop making nosensical accusations at me. Alright? 😦
You see, you guys are more worrying than tis… ‘boo boo’ gahmen, it seems.
Zzz…
CelluloidReality,
I think there is no more need for me to say much. After all, I have said enough.
Try not to *disturb* what should be left in peace… 🙂
http://elfredinario.wordpress.com/
Fever Guy said
dear Elfred,
You don seem to me like a neutral if you have, your heart should have pointed to the truth.
You said i am radical…haha…i am a law abiding citizen, pay my taxes and fines regualrly. Did i ever incite revolt, ask ppl to riot, strikes or boycott. Do i go publicly to ask people power? Please refrain yourself from branding ppl as radical…don save face for your ah kong.
FACT: The terrorist escaped. Why? How? Who’s reponsibilites? Why the topic in ST becomes People are complacent? You as claim to be a neutral failed to acknowledge the simple truth that is failure in the system at WDC. Should it be treated as a non-issue or something we all need to ponder upon? Are we not complacent by not asking more? and letting it hidden in some dark scret closet for eternity? You keep infering to other topics of non relevancy mentioned by ST. I am amazed at your lack of understanding. Do you think i am dumb that i do not know politics? That piece of news is to soft sell and tone down the public curiousity and displeasure. Making it sound like some children went missing from a child care centre and every parents are to be blamed?
You keep using ISA and Ah Kong to scare the shit out of my pants. Yup, I am fearful but life still goes on rite? Should i live in fear and be a zombie? Maybe you have a good life, scholar status, more than enough to spend and life generally good for you. Therefore live your own good life and stop making yourself so morally high up coz there are ppl who are not that fortunate as you. Would you care anyway, my dear elite?
to all real TOC fans may your heart tells you the truth and the truth will set you free,
Darkness said
This elfredinario character is obviously a $1.99 a month counter insurgency muppet – you mean, you all cannot see it?
You mean all of you here need road signs?
We have known abt these characters here for the last 4 months – FYI, we count at least 3 here.
Hey Elfred, let me give you a 101 on basic counter insurgency:
Rule 1: never be to quick to defend your masters, if possible even go with the crowd to gain their trust first dummy.
Rule 2: Once Rule 1 has been firmly established, then and only then do you start to advance your POV.
Instead u go around threatening ppl – you want a war? I tell you what, I will give you one for free. I am just in the right mood for it bc I just had a big argument with my gf.
You stop threatening ppl here!
Darkness 2008
Dingo said
Fever Guy, yup I’ve noticed that there are lots of people anyhow throwing around the word “radical” nowadays.
theonlinecitizen said
Dear Expected Analysis,
Thanks for being patient with us. And to be sure, no, TOC is not manipulated by the PAP in any way, shape, form, means, etc.
If it were, I’d be the first to leave.
The same goes if TOC were manipulated by any other political party too.
I think our writers have shown that they’re independent in what they write. 🙂
Now, back to the topic at hand. Look out for more ministers coming out to repeat what MM said, in order to shove the message down our throats. It’s the usual propaganda method.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
CelluloidReality said
Dingo,
It’s glam.
All fun and fashionable.
It’s one of those discourses of hegemony and how words in their usual parlance are taken apart and used for contemporary through glitzy vehicles of transmission.
Too bad, like all things consumerist in nature, the effect when multiplied, is simultaneously diluted.
But then, hor. Some people don’t like a fair discussion leh.
How ah?
Fever Guy said
Well said Andrew!
Dingo,
I have seen the word radical used by pro-pap bloggers many times. It is common nowadays. All singaporeans are now radical once the views are different from main stream. Very scary feeling.
CelluloidReality said
FG,
A blatant abuse of the english language shows the lack of cogent vocabulary amongst the user lah.
tiredman said
Quote
” theonlinecitizen Says:
April 6, 2008 at 5:23 pm
A comment left on Mr Wang’s blog:
Quote
“Anonymous said…
From this, MM Lee then uses the specious argument the government can’t be FULLY acountable
for this debacle because you the citizens had unreasonably high expectations of the
government.
tiredman said
Quote
” theonlinecitizen Says:
April 6, 2008 at 5:23 pm
A comment left on Mr Wang’s blog:
Anonymous said…
From this, MM Lee then uses the specious argument the government can’t be FULLY acountable
for this debacle because you the citizens had unreasonably high expectations of the
government.”
Then, what the F*** take so much salary for what? Is there any conflict between “unreasonably high expectations” and “”reasonably” high salary”? I still don’t understand.
CelluloidReality said
Funny thing is, the state is the ultimate arbiter of security, and is obliged to use as much effort as possible to ensure this, as espoused by Morgenthau, whose ethos is very clear in the national politics of survival of Singapore.
We expect the state to secure us, because it is the state’s ambit.
This is not an unreasonable expectation. It is however, unreasonable when the State tells the citizens, “Hey, lay off our ass because we’re only human”.
Well, yes we are all human. But different individuals or groups carry different responsibilities. While a mistake has been made, and is irrevocable, it is disappointing when the authorities that make the mistake say that it is unreasonable to expect them to maintain security at all times under all circumstances.
As long as due diligence has been made, why fear the public eye?
CelluloidReality said
Heck,
Ultimately, we all want MSK caught, we all want secure borders and for our reptutation to be salvaged.
Everyone wants this nation to be safe..so why the grief?
kelly said
Even if DPM Wong Kan Seng isn’t too happy to ‘take the blame’ for letting a terrorist escape, he should not shift the blame on Singaporeans. Bad move. Creates disharmony in my opinion.
I fully agree with CelluloidReality,” It’s about a simple case of ‘if your men stuff up, you as the commander don’t gloss it over.'”
Yi-Long said
Andrew said, “Now, back to the topic at hand. Look out for more ministers coming out to repeat what MM said, in order to shove the message down our throats. It’s the usual propaganda method.” It’d be really damn sad if one of those to speak up is DPM Wong. I’ll have no qualms smashing my radio if I hear the news.
The grief is naturally there. Imagine, a lot of Singaporeans, both uniformed and non-uniformed, had put in precious time to help clean up the mess our DPM Wong and his ISA had created. And this is the kind of gratitude that we’re getting?! It may sound absurd, but why didn’t any of the Ministers or MPs join in the search? when it was pouring for the whole week in March, our army, police, gurkhas etc braved the harsh weather and spending less time with family. This is what they get in return?!
feedmetothefish said
Hi Andrew,
Thanks again for getting citizens online!
‘Complacency sets in when a people have not suffered any shock or setback for a long time.’ said MM Lee Kuan Yew. As far as I know, the ruling party has been sitting pretty for so many arrogant years that complacency has finally creeps in. Looks to me like there are too many deadwoods within the papland.
For the benefit of Mister MM, though I hate to make his life meaningless*, I must let him know that with so much power and money, I’m afraid that he has become complacent in not keeping his subordinates on their toes, doing the jobs that they are paid ‘eat gold, drink liquid diamond’ millions to do. Maybe MM should understand that the art of living is to let go and let others (including his son and subordinates) do their jobs and get on with their lives without hoarding the limelight and playing Mr KnowsAll all the time!
Poor me, I have to hoard rice (long enough not to let the evil weavils creep in) as even NTUC Fairprice has unfairly started hike essential items!
And pleeeeze do not say, [“Even from my sick bed, even if you are going to lower me into the grave and I feel something is going wrong, I will get up.” 1988 National Day Rally, when he discussed the leadership transition to Goh Chok Tong in 1990.] again. Enough is enough!!! I sincerely hope that he’d give his son and others a chance to justify their obscene million $,$$$,$$$ salary.
*”Between being loved and being feared, I have always believed Machiavelli was right. If nobody is afraid of me, I’m meaningless.” – Lee Kuan Yew, 6.10.1997
feedmetothefish
elfredinario said
Shoestring,
If PMO read your reply to me… they will probably laugh their Ss out… Why? You think I am living that wonderfully better than most Singaporeans???
Very unfair to me.
You still don’t understand what I’m driving at… Precisely becos I am neutral, I have to assess this from a macro down view. And one of it is… what kinda choice will such be by pushing MM relentlessly.
He is an elderly, he had already spoken a few times. In China, 给个台阶. He’s not your regular forumers who can be just shoot here shoot there, ban here ban there. If you guys push him too much, what do you expect him to do?
As a neutral, you make your point, you hit and go, you look at things on a broader sense.
Stop saying I am trying to scare you with Ah Gong or ISA. ISA exists, and is precisely used for ‘special moments’. Now, MM spoke, PM spoke, DPM spoke. All three are involved…
Your ‘ah gong’ is not known for upholding free speech. Not that it’d happen, but why push it to such limits?
To you, it looks reasonable and fair… In reality, if everything is so left by left right by right, those lawyers could have just protest alongside with SDP…
What is neutral? Think again.
In politics, certain scenario is considered radical…
You know Mao’s 百花齐放?
Being neutral is like fishing, pull a bit, loose a bit, pull a bit then loose a bit, then you can pull again… and the rope won’t break easily.
People should recognise the situation.
http://elfredinario.wordpress.com/
Fever Guy said
Everyone here,
Take a look at Elfred ‘s comments. Wow! Unbelievable spokeman for MM. He sells FEAR to all of us. I take note of your “advise” and you can continue being “NEUTRAL”. Here in TOC, as a blogger we write and discuss what is important issue to us. If you so afraid, please join the kindergarden blogs like the P65 or FM ‘s blog. Take your baggage with you, it somehow is too heavy for us to bear. You know MAO’s many flop policies? When the day CCP falls people will curse and swear his name. As for me, its my business not yours. I used to repect MM alot but too many recent issues over the last few years have dimished his name. He has a lot of contribution to singapore nation building that i will remember eternity. Rest assured i will tone myself down so that you will not be back to sprout anymore fear. Keep TOC free of you such ppl is important, Fear mongers.
shoestring said
Elfred,
It am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to yours. Whether you are neutral or not, let the readers be the judge. There’s no need to be agitated and over-react.
Disgusted said
Elfred,
it’s mostly because of people like you that talented Singaporeans are leaving the country and not going back(as what PM Lee mentioned recently). I will hardly classify the views on this forum as “radical”. Anyway, you keep
mentioning if they “push it”, they will want “a war”.(whatever that means) I want to tell you that you already have your “war”. Many of us wish you good luck living in your tiny well. The most successful of us have moved on to greater, better things(and places) in life. Have fun withering in stagnation as the country’s soul collapses into a hollow shell. Have fun.
gleechoo said
Dingo,
Good point. I used the word ‘suspect’ and therefore no judgment made on my part (haha). If the grapevine reckons he is, then it better do its job efficiently and put him wherever he should be asap! But are there capable younger leaders on the job to mobilise?
One cannot change a system unless one is in authority. A department such as ISA exists internationally, so…
Complacency means contentment…are we, citizens, a contented lot? Have we been one? Or have we being pigeon-holed for so long that…
elfredinario said
Disgusted,
Yes, you are successful. But no reason to be careless.
That’s why I think something is wrong here with the gahmen. It creates an environment grooming people to kick itself. Hahahahaha…
Look, people leaving or not has obviously no business in people like me.
You guys can go overseas if the gahmen have enough and start clamping down. Many of the netizens who may join you cannot. The issue is also that since you have not regards to the moderates, and if you think banishing anyone who is not with you is cool, what can I say?
Not that I see no issues with the gahmen. The gahmen will also have issues. Ever since Mas Selamat escaped, Mr Wong openly apologised, MM spoke, PM spoke, and the report is so said to be in the making, unfinished yet. The old man is just making a general statement. And it fuels hell.
Now this is a give n take. Assuming the gahmen does clamp down on your neutral views, what do you expect?
There is nothing wrong even when MM said the gahmen has no wrong in this. Think carefully. The report may not find the gahmen guilty. This is one basis. One Mr Wong cannot possibly go down to check on every single detainee and his/her loopholes to escape. That’s another. Mr Wong has already started to do as much as he could. That’s yet another.
This escape is, as explained by MM. Whether he is right or not, complacency that Mas Selamat is an escape artist and the guards relak is valid. On Singaporeans, he is just offering a national education.
You are a Singapore, a good citizen of the society; especially when you show such concern. So Elfred is homeless or jobless, will you care for other Singaporeans more than this Mas Selamat yourselves?
Come on. If you are really that kinda member of public, that’s one thing. But are you?
Now, why do people leave? Becos Mas Selamat escaped? Or becos this society has been most cold n they are seeking prospect out there?
So what DPM is mentioned by MM, that some have wanted?
I don’t think people like me makes people leave Singapore. What do you expect MM to react to this? To apologise? To sack DPM Wong? To award TOC and major forums?
Who is making things worse?
http://elfredinario.wordpress.com/
Alan Wong said
In spite of what you have said about your neutrality, you seem bent in defending MM & the pappies without much reason.
For whatever your motives, they should invite you for a tea party but please make sure you have 4As before you go along.
Alan Wong said
Sorry, the above is directed at Elfred.
Blaming Game said
As I see it, complacency if any, comes from the spinning of the
mass medias, as the mouth piece of the government, that always say
only the good things but failed to highlight the bad side of
things. This has lulled the people into believing that our govt is
super-duper and everything is fine – being 1st World and being led
by extraordinary people who are incorruptible (if paid $millions).
Another way of seeing it is that owing to too much power wielded
by the government, complacency sets in because it is able to make
use of this power to silence or render ineffective any “Maverick”
who attempts to single out mistakes made by any government agency
or civil servant. And being in the government for too long, they
begin to take it for granted that they will continue to rule this
country forever. This can be seen in the recent speech by PM Lee
stating that he would be the PM for the next 13 years or so. (He
is so cock-sure that he would live for another 13 years and that
he would continue to wield the power of a PM and that the PAP will
continue to rule) If this is not taking things for granted, and
therefore complacency, what is?
Thirdly, by paying ministers and top civil servants heftily at the
expense of the citizens could also have contributed the attitude
of arrogance and complacency in the top echelons that they began
to think that whatever they do is right and is for the good of the
people. This can be seen by their frequently demonstrated
tendency to discard feedbacks given to them with regards to major
decisions that affect the people, e.g. the casino issues, the gay
issues, and the CPF issues.
I think these three are the biggest culprits that have caused
the general attitude of complacency that MM Lee is talking about.
crankyed said
a bit of selective reporting by toc. in a balanced view, old man stupid to say that singaporeans as a whole are complacent. but he also said custodians are negligent in the paper version.
so complacency as a whole is a problem for all singapore and any country anywhere. but negligence by the custodians, here he carefully never specifically use the word “government”, is the real blame.
Fever Guy said
Quote From Elfred the “Neutral”
Not that I see no issues with the gahmen. The gahmen will also have issues. Ever since Mas Selamat escaped, Mr Wong openly apologised, MM spoke, PM spoke, and the report is so said to be in the making, unfinished yet. The old man is just making a general statement. And it fuels hell.
Now this is a give n take. Assuming the gahmen does clamp down on your neutral views, what do you expect?
There is nothing wrong even when MM said the gahmen has no wrong in this. Think carefully. The report may not find the gahmen guilty. This is one basis. One Mr Wong cannot possibly go down to check on every single detainee and his/her loopholes to escape. That’s another. Mr Wong has already started to do as much as he could. That’s yet another.
elfred,
What are you talking? Human language or bird language? WKS apologise? Are you sure his words are exactly that, did he say sorry due to the failing of the WDC? As for MM spoke and PM spoke so i must all kowtow and say is my fault rite? Give and take what? Gahmen give us what, holiday in WDC? We take what? A gift from WDC? Clamp who? This is a BLOG mind you, not a official media medium. Are we racist? or have said anything about it go take a look at SBF they are worst why not clamp them? That deserve all of us to be treated as radicals!!!!!!
Nothing wrong when MM says gahmen has no wrong. HAHAHA….you are an idiot my elfred. You are sure brainwash of the highest level i have encountered from a “neutral”. Whether the gahmen has wrong or the report says no wrong is not the government ‘s call. It is the people ‘s judgement. Something you will not learn by associating too much with YP/PAP they teach power in our hands never power to the people. Get it? Boy, you really piss alot of bloggers off. Now instead of discussing issues you flame all of us with your aggressive threats of ISA. Either you are in some MHA, GOV Sector or SAF, mind your own business! Please go take a break and bring your bags with you.
william said
It’s kinda of similarity here where I am working now. We employees made mistake we are marked for poor performance and demerit points given. We are warned to be more competent and learn from mistake and say no more. Don’t blame the management and the culture here, just blame yourself. I think same here. Don’t put the blame on government but yourself.
As a Singaporean I feel quite ashamed that till now there is no news about Mas Selamat’s whereabout and I lost count of the days since he escaped from prison. I always think we have a bunch of sophisticated police able to find him quickly and put him back where he belongs. I think we should not be complacent and relook at our own police capability and the training given to them. Hmm.. quite doubtful isn’t it?
Daily SG: 7 Apr 2008 « The Singapore Daily said
[…] Break, My Fault – Mr Wang Says So: Very Poor Service By The Straits Times – The Online Citizen: Mas Selamat’s escape – Government shifting the blame to Singaporeans’ “complacency” – i have succumbed to peer pressure: Re-reading Mr Lee vis-à-vis Pierre Macherey – Die neue Welle: […]
sghome said
THE People’s Action Party (PAP) is mounting a quiet counter-insurgency against its online critics. It has members going into Internet forums and blogs to rebut anti-establishment views and putting up postings anonymously… the initiative is driven by two sub-committees of the PAP’s ‘new media’ committee chaired by Manpower Minister Ng Eng Hen… Aside from politicians, some 20 IT-savvy party activists are also involved… This can only work if activists are not ‘too obvious’ about it, Mr Baey said yesterday. Otherwise it comes across as ‘propaganda’. ‘The identity is not important. It is the message that is important,’ he added.
“PAP moves to counter criticism of party, Govt in cyberspace” by Li Xueying
The Straits Times, 3 Feb 2007
TOC and supporters, beware of this ‘war’.
Complacent Singaporean said
I think it is good to be complacent. Complacency is part and
parcel of the Swiss Standard of Living, Gracious Living, More
Good Years, Stay Together and Move Ahead, and all other “Bulls”
that make this make-believe world of ours.
If we are not complacent, then we would be giving the government
a hard time. We would not have allowed them to take us for a ride
for so long. We would have challenged all the laws that have
violated our constitutional rights. Our leaders won’t be so
cock-sure that they will continue to be the PM for the next 13
years. Our Parliament won’t be having a 82 vs 2 MPs. Our Cabinet
won’t have such extra posts as SM and MM. Our minsters won’t be
so easily get away with demanding $million salary and bonuses in
order to prevent them from becoming corrupt.
Think about it. Complacency of the citizens is a very good thing
for the government if it wishes to continue to rule forever.
Three cheers for all Complacent Singaporeans!
From:
One Complacent Singaporean.
Disgusted said
Elfred said:
“Now, why do people leave? Becos Mas Selamat escaped? Or becos this society has been most cold n they are seeking prospect out there?
So what DPM is mentioned by MM, that some have wanted?
I don’t think people like me makes people leave Singapore. What do you expect MM to react to this? To apologise? To sack DPM Wong? To award TOC and major forums?
Who is making things worse?”
People leave because their opinions are not respected. People leave because there are people like you around Elfred, people who love to toe the party line and fail to see the truth. People leave because Singapore is increasingly getting run by a bunch of incompetent, indecisive and inexperienced politicians + civil servants. The escape of Mas Selamat is just the tip of the iceberg. There are other issues that are equally disastrous, if not more. The UBS subprime debacle comes to mind. Who issued the order to invest in it? Why was it so sudden? Is it really a long term investment? Why throw away billions of dollars so carelessly and still claim that there is no money to help the poor? Where is the transparency in this whole issue? The money is taxpayer’s money and shouldn’t be treated lightly.
Back to the issue of the escaped person, I will like to ask for the CCTV footage to be shown. You mean to tell me that there isn’t CCTV footage of how he escaped? The footage for James Gomez during the elections was released rather quickly during the elections. And it wasn’t even in a prison! Where is the CCTV footage of the escaped prisoner? The public should have the right to see it.
So Elfred, I’ll like to say one more thing. Wong Kan Seng should be fired. You are going to say the usual,”But does this help the current situation? In these troubling times, we should band together and help out yada yada yada…” Let me just say that firing Wong Kan Seng is the right thing to do for the country. It might not help in the short term but as a long term thing, it is beneficial for everyone. We do not want incompetent people in charge of the security of the country. We can always hire someone else more capable of doing the job. Given his current performance, it shouldn’t be too difficult.
TooMuch said
The govt had very early on pinned the blame on the Gurkha guards who were escorting Mas Selamat to the visitor centre. See http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=242464 for ST report. To add insult to injury, “Gurkha” was spelt as “gurkha”.
CelluloidReality said
All this bollocking is making me damn thirsty.
It’s deplorable that a discussion has become thus.
Have some teh tarik to cool down yeah…
GiinaKiah said
ALL HAIL THE GREAT OLD MAN!
I, a citizen of Singapore, hereby do apologise to our wonderful, extraordinary, unique, top-talented, overly successful government for being complacent.
I beg the great Men In White to forgive my transgression!
I, a worthless citizen, will forever submit myself to grovelling at the feet of our GREAT masters in humility and slavery.
I BEG our great MM to forgive me, spare me, and have mercy on my worthless soul. I hereby kow tow 3 times to the Great Lee!
When the next election comes around, maybe I will have a chance to be truly free and vote for an alternative. My vote goes to the opposition, no matter what the PAP does in the next 2 to 3 years.
I’ve had enough bullshit shoved down my throat the last 2 years after GE 2006.
Enough!
GiinaKiah said
Disgusted,
I agree with you, bro. WKS should be fired. He has had almost 40 days to capture Mas Selamat. Yet, he doesn’t even know where he is! AFTER ALMOST 40 DAYS! All we keep hearing are:
1. “We believe he is still in Singapore.”
2. “Singaporeans are complacent.”
3. “The government is overly successful.”
F**king hell. Left they win, right they also win. And the bloody PM is a wimp. Where has he been????
sghome said
Remember these faces. Come next election, I will vote them out if they are in my estate.
http://www.parliament.gov.sg/AboutUs/Org-M…Christopher.htm
http://www.parliament.gov.sg/AboutUs/Org-M…WongKanSeng.htm
http://www.parliament.gov.sg/AboutUs/Org-M…of-NgEngHen.htm
http://www.parliament.gov.sg/AboutUs/Org-M…Prof-Vivian.htm
one is anti human right
one is mas selamat in disguise
one is anti-mature workers
One is anti-poor
Let the rest in gov get their millions for the time being because the stupid opposition is not ready. bw2/twisted.gif
Gary Teoh said
I, on behalf of citizen of singapore unreservedly apologised to pap gahmen for letting mas selamat to escape from the DC.I promise I will not be in complacency and I will uphold justice by voting pap gahmen in for the next 50 years,so that the ministers can enjoy million dollar salary,and we citizens can get rebate,singapore shares,ntuc vouchers,and pre election bonus.Cheers to pap,
shoestring said
Yes, be careful of entrapment. If you like it hot, go eat mee siam mai hum instead. If it’s too hot to handle, drink teh tarik with ice with kaki at kopi tiam 🙂
antz said
When I look at MM Lee pic,now he reminds me of how Mahathir is whacking PM Abdullah.
Nobody is whacking PM Lee but we are being blamed instead?
How ironic to live here in singapore?
elfredinario said
Fever Guy,
When have I threatened you?
Disgusted,
If people leave just becos their opinions are not respected, I supposed you are telling me that 90% of the people’s opinions are respected, so they don’t leave.
Enough of this.
I am not toeing the party line. But politics is just this. You cannot expect that in every war, every battle, that you go and kill lieuts just becos his mission failed. I know you guys. No way can be reasoned with. And I am stucked between you people and the gahmen. Why?
There are many concerned Singaporeans, there are many views, and there are many agendas in this cyber clout of darkness. If Singaporean politics is about and only about popular politics… You guys will be justified, those NTUC netters will also be justified. We don’t even need any thinking. Who can gang up who wins.
And this is making Singapore a better place.
No. I deeply against dismissing Wong Kan Seng for this. And even if I am the lone voice here, that’s it. I am against dismissing him. And don’t even think he, or the MM, or this party will even thank me. Especially in this sort of situation, all the more we cannot remove a DPM. I have explained very clearly why.
Why ain’t I neutral? Must I be like you guys, then I can be a neutral? Must I shout ‘shut up, MM’, then I can gain your delight, as I should be the ‘gigolo’ in NTUC forum just to earn the delight of you people, then I can Neutral.
I don’t think so.
If I have to do this just to get popular, it’s pathetic.
I m one of those, suffering in Singapore, aspiring to reach my potential, stucked in this place where lices are infesting the society. I long for good people to lead as well. I long for great governance to address the growing evils as a result of the blind pursue of money.
Look at you guys…
To me, you are like behaving as Dr Chee. We have a cost issue, you think following Dr Chee to the streets will make the gahmen do something? You think fighting with MM Lee, he’d consider doing something? You think dismissing Mr Wong by this… ganging up, mocking, and such will be the good of Singapore? Politically speaking, do you expect MM to give in, and signal of his weakness… …?
I suffer in Singapore, with great injustice encountered as well. And PMO should have all the records. But if we are going to change anything for the better, we have to look broadbased, and we have to be quality. Yes yes yes… I am not successful as many of you. So?
All my hopes of a better future in Singpoare are dashed…
You are using the internet to stage a battle, a fight… and the gahmen will not just roll over and die. People are pissed. So would probably the gahmen. What will happen to the many suffering in Singapore… it’s just a dragging on, and on… and on.
People leave, becos they need to survive. Simple as that. They want a better life.
If you think that the gahmen is autocratic, what about you? U r pissed becos someone reminds on goodwill. Hahahahahahaha…
Regretably, I can’t earn your delight. It’s not about party line, it’s just common sense.
The truth is very simple, Disgusted… There is never any truth but agendas in a cultural desert.
There is never justice in either side. And who will suffer? The ordinary people.
Sghome,
Rest assure, I am no what counter-insurgency. Fact is, I myself is looking out for one… such oversensitive counter-insurgency.
kelly said
Let’s get back on topic….
Yilong said,”The grief is naturally there. Imagine, a lot of Singaporeans, both uniformed and non-uniformed, had put in precious time to help clean up the mess our DPM Wong and his ISA had created. And this is the kind of gratitude that we’re getting?! It may sound absurd, but why didn’t any of the Ministers or MPs join in the search? when it was pouring for the whole week in March, our army, police, gurkhas etc braved the harsh weather and spending less time with family. This is what they get in return?!”
Yes, I noticed that too but “big shots” will always let the others do the “dirty job”. Besides, I can’t help but find it all so fishy. How did the government came to the conclusion that the BUS-DRVER lied about spotting Mas Kusturi Selemat (hope he’s the only guy with this name!) Unless the govt already know for sure where he is RIGHT NOW.
There are rumours he’s died of torture and the news of his escape is a cover. The other rumour I had was that he was intentionally let off in the hope he would let authorities to the other terrorist ring-leaders.
If it’s true PAP is reading this, they should get more intelligent people. I mean…come on….a funeral hub in Sin Ming was suggested last year. haha
aygee said
Complacent Singaporean, nice comment #95.
“What to do? It’s happened.” I call that the most complacent quote one can ever give.
“Johnny, you had very poor results in your exams. What happened?” “what to do, it’s happened”.
“Sir, you are drinking and driving, and your alcohol limit is 3 times more than the accepted level.” “What to do? It’s happened”.
But i’m thinking – have we been complacent that we never really challenged the govt, or were we just fearful? or was it both – Fear and Complacency?
Solving complacency? have more checks and balances. a free press, better debates in parliament (not necessary from an opposition – until we get some credible opposition members, but remove the party whip, have more of a Republican/Democrat type govt.), separate the legistative, executive and jucidiary, and as mentioned many times above – TRANSPARENCY.
aygee said
Erm..just to go with some of the arguments here:
Should Wong Kan Seng leave?
We are led to believe that Mas Selamat is the #1 public enemy, and he intends to kill many innocent people. Think about it – a limping man without flight training taking over a plane (in today’s levels of security in many airports and in airplanes), and flying it into Changi.
Maybe, there is NO pressure for him to resign from within the govt or his bosses is because Mas Selamat never was the so-called danger that we are led to believe by the press and other govt elements?
WE HAVE BEEN COMPLACENT IN ACCEPTING WHATEVER THE PRESS AND OTHER SOURCES IN BELIEVING MAS SELAMAT IS DANGEROUS.
we won’t know because there is no transparency – he wasn’t charged in court. Bring it all out to the open so that all of us are convinced that he’s really the threat that he’s made out to be.
The solution: TRANSPARENCY.
Should WKS be fired for this cock-up? we never really knew what happened on the ground. A mistake from the Gurkha guards? Mas Selamat has magical powers through long hours of meditation, thus was able to walk out unnoticed? (as claimed by Jufrie Mahmood on asiasentinel.com), he was kidnapped by CIA agents and brought to Guantanamo?
Until we really know what happened on the ground, we shouldn’t be calling for WKS’ head, just yet. Until Mas Selamat does harmful acts on Singaporeans, we shouldn’t be calling for his head.
I honestly believe Wong Kan Seng’s trying, to the best of his and his Ministry’s ability, to capture Mas Selamat. He’s only as good as the staff/advisors he has around him.
what is the solution again then? TRANSPARENCY.
Wong Kan Seng has delegated the responsibilities of Whitley Centre to a few people. So if there’s a cockup, if the public REALLY wants someone to take responsibility, then i would think the head of the Whitley Detention Centre, the duty officer for the day, the people in charge of training the Gurkhas, and the Gurkhas involved in the case, etc..then these people should be made accountable.
I mean compare it with another recent cock-up – the Courts recently made a boo-boo of giving a man 3 extra strokes of the cane. Do you ask for the Chief Justice to resign? it was an error by the administrators on the day…a bit harsh to call for the Chief Justice to go?
anyways – just some thoughts.
Responsibility and Blame, Shame Shame « The Sun Shines on Singapore said
[…] the breathing space and the respite that MM Lee has bought for him. From where I am lurking, dear MM Lee has started another storm by saying what he thinks and wants. His son, Lee Hsien Loong the Silent, has remained wisely quiet in the background as he knows that […]
wildboar said
I wonder young Lee can perform or not, he is the one who judge the performance of ministers, and give them performance bonus.Then who judge PM’s performance ? MM or SM ?
Fever Guy said
Dear “Excited” Elfred,
Now all of us here are branded ” DR Chee”, is he a radical? Look in the western nations and you will find a lot of DR Chee. Did any of this western nations failed economically? Look at our friends in the north, they too have many DR chee and did the people suffered to the point of breaking. They suffered more under UMNO. You are quick to throw names at us for crimes we did not commit. You truly wins head off for extreme ideas and imagination. Stop calling yourself a NEUTRAL look you are behaving now like a EXtremist.
Nobody is asking WKS to step down, neither did anyone here at TOC petition to the prataman for him to step down. Nobody here believes he will step down anyway. Bet 1000000 to 1 he wont resign. So any issue, since no MIW is losing iron rice bowl anyway?
Why are you saying killing our own lieutenant when he failed in a mission. There is no WAR to being with…we have peaceful singapore and thanks SAF but no we did not experience a WAR less WW2 my friend? If no how to kill our own officer, talk COCK my friend, such acts only Hilter, saddam and evil leaders do that. Singaporeans are peaceful in nature, they are like sheeps lock up in a pen. What more do you ask of us? should we shear our wool for you too?
Internet battle as mentioned by you is so laughable. Battle who? Who lead us? What do we get? Any foot soldiers? LAN GAMING which internet cafe? You are too in a box to see an overall picture. People are not happy, why? Ask yourself this question. Why people/citizen spent time here at TOC to blog? You think we very free is it. Because something is very wrong with the current system. Why fix it when it aint broken, just oiled it will do. sounds familiar? No much of oiling can fix a lousy, outdated and soon to be broken system. Elfred, you can continue your arguments but at the end of day, no one here is ganging up, i don know anyone here and they too are sincere bloggers who want the best for Singapore, the general feeling is that we are all pissed…not with you but at the very words you used. Do yourself less harm, stop spoiling your party image by waving the high and mighty flag and finally just stop what you need to say as the more you say just makes it worst.
Cheers.
jac00 said
OH PLS!! What kind of ‘transparent’ reports are we going to get from a government in which the most SENIOR OF SENIOR ministers has just outrightly informed us that we are complacent!! And do remember they have already said some time back that they have the power to publish parts of the reports that they deem suit.
Sghome: I am not suprised if there are any pro-political party activists that would use the cyberspace and make comments that are pro-PAP. The Russians did it during their communist rule(in their newspapers), China ban sites online so why not small singapore! I would do that too if i was in the government! Ghost writers? Who knows, they just might be real people, fanatics of the PAP ruling party…
Yi-Long said
Pt of Info for readers:
Media companies around the globe carry agendas that’s pro-(their)owners.
And who owns local media companies? 😉
Another Great Escape. said
Just for info – Flash News from BBC:
15:01 GMT, Monday, 7 April 2008 16:01 UK
Nine people convicted for links to suicide bombings in
Casablanca have escaped from a Moroccan prison, officials say.
Prison authorities at Kenitra, 40km (25 miles) north of the
capital, Rabat, noticed the escape on Monday morning, the
Justice Ministry told state media.
An interior ministry source told AFP news agency that the
prisoners had tunnelled their way out.
The 2003 attacks left 45 people dead, including 12 bombers,
and many injured.
All measures were being taken to find the fugitives, the
Justice Ministry said in a statement on state news agency MAP.
Officials had been sent to the prison to investigate how the convicts had broken out, it said.
hogwash said
All this hog wash to cover up the findings of the commission of inquiry? I wait quietly, holding my breath….
Disgusted said
Elfred,
please try to stick to the points of my argument. You’re not making any sense at all. I am asking for transparency of the government. The first thing they have to do is the release the CCTV footage of what happened. Where is it?
My second point is getting rid of incompetent people. That *will* make things better. We cannot afford to have incompetent people leading the country. I have a bunch of other names in mind on who should be fire from their jobs.(the transport minister also comes to mind) You claim that this is “radical”, that we are all “Dr Chees”. Please stop using that as a scare tactic. This isn’t radical at all. On the contary, sacking incompetent people happens on a day to day basis in companies all around the world. Our ministers always claim to be the best(pegging their salaries to the top percentile in the industry). If that is how they see themselves, then that is how they should be treated. I am fine with paying top people top dollar. However, if they mess up, they are no longer top people and should be sacked.
time to change said
spend more time to re-educate young singaporean voters on this garmen wrong way of running this country. they have main stream media , we have internet and numerous of unhappy singaporeans. let’s do it in our small ways to spread real meaning of democracy to each and every singaporean.
anonymous said
as each day passes, I am more convinced that Mas Selamat is innocent.
So is the younger chap that they arrested to defract attention.
PAP’s actions so far had confirmed the worse I know of them. They are willing to sacrifice anyone, anything to cover their ass. They had not shown themselves as being of integrity and honesty. Nothing they do will be righteous nor of any good intentions for others except themselves.
I only feel sad for those too small to defend against such tyrants.
hogwash said
talk about tyrants. I wonder how the christian ministers (Tony Tan) feels now after Tang Liang Hong was forced to migrate to australia after having the guts to stand up to PAP. He was really too small to defend against such tyrants. Ditto Chia Thye Poh and Francis Seow. Yes, even Francis Seow had to visit ISD for a stint. And cultural medallion winners….. small fries all… must have made the PAP ministers feel big. Yes. http://www.straitstimes.com/Free/Story/STIStory_129332.html
You believe the ST? completely?
CelluloidReality said
Anonymous,
That’s where I think you’re wrong. These fellows are targeted by every security agency from Indochina to Canberra.
Innocent? I think not.
Could there have been a better way of dealing with threats to our national security? Possibly.
Yi-Long said
In politics, the Chinese saying of 胜者为王，败者为寇 (literal translation: the winner is the king, and the loser is the bandit) applies to great effect.
Chia and Seow held different political ideologies from our leaders then.
If the then-Labour Party had stayed in power, the ISD detainees might have probably been a very different person(s).
Seeking Salvation said
we are just too complacent to vote in people who are overpaid too much to feed their face that they do not know the logical truth and admit in an honourable way that it was their mistake.
This is a aloof government who would punish anyone miserably to the extent of bankrupting anyone who speaks against them Yet they are afraid to admitting to their own mistake of letting Mas Selamat escape and blaming fellowing Singapore for being complacent. Yes we were too complacent to allow this government run for so long to turn it into a cocky, red tape, aloof, monster. Fellow Singapore lets not be too complacent in choosing them in the next elections. But remember we have already let them feed themselves fat in the face and pockets with enough to last their families for generations when some fellow Singaporeans are jobless, starving and struggling with the food prices and GST hike. These are people who engaged in cheap talk and allow foreign talents to compete for your jobs. It is a no brainer during the downturn and the SARS period when the economy was laguishing, they did not offer any
solutions. So with a event such a big escape they are in further denial of their own mistake and pushing the issue to complacency of their citizens. So much for a world class government. Which government have a Prime Minister who is paid overly much and need a father to hold his hand as mentor and a Senior Minister and 2 Deputies for a small dot (as Taiwan called a peesai) to lead. I think we are in for a hell of a shit hellhole time. Whenever there is a crisis he goes in hibernation and keep his mouth shut do u call that a world class government
Gary Teoh said
Hi Disgusted, i totally agree with you,take so much pay must be competent, if not we pay peanut get monkey
Am I a fool ? said
MM is right, we should all not be complacent and ask about our NATIONAL reserves and CPF money as this is our blood and sweat money.
All Singaporeans should not be complacent ahd find out how our money is being accounted for with regards to our returns.
If we still sit on our asses, we are gonna hit the same problem again.
Do wait till the well goes dry, find out what is actually happening before we hit ground zero.
Insulted said
I do not know about the rest but as a Singaporean I feel insulted. Yet I can do nothing as I have never had the chance to excercise by right to vote (mind you, I am in my mid 40s) because of governments efficiency in re-drawing boundaries and creating bigger GRCs. At the least I definitely do not feel humiliated, the 66.6% should, because they were complacent.
Dingo said
Fever Guy,
Excellent response in the first paragraph of post #111
Gary Teoh said
Actually we should thank mas selamat for waking us up regarding complacency. Til now we are still living in a make believe world.If we still don’t change,we will lose our CPF forever. Thank you mas selamat. Hope you are in good health.
aygee said
As i read the multiple blogs about this complacency issue, something comes to my mind…
That perhaps MM Lee’s comment about complacency was a veiled “cautionary” remark on the current government? that he was using sarcasm to subtly tell his son and WKS and maybe the govt as a whole that they are f**king things up in Singapore, that the govt is complacent?
Because he KNOWS that he will get a rise of the people through his statement?
just a thought for discussion…
Ray said
But I do believe us Singaporeans are far to complacent and overly proud and too dependent. We need this kind of shock just to wake the people up and realize “hey, we aren’t all that prefect after all”…
And seriously Andrew… do u really think Mas is alive and well hiding away safely? so what if the government is pushing the blame towards us. Have the people had any say in this or any other matter that the government took into serious consideration? NO. What they do, we follow. What they say, we listen. Nuff said.
patriot said
Terrorists and terrorism will always remain threats as long as Singapore is pro United States, there can be no doubt about it. These threats can only be mitigated when Singapore learns to be neutral. Neutrality may even completely neutralizes the said threats.
As for war with other sovereigns, we may have to be realistic. The Modern World has little or no tribal culture, unlike years yonder, when occupying anothers’ land was victory and glory, today, having peace and prosperity is the greatest wisdom.
While Suharto must be condemned for corruption, he must also be remembered for some great wisdoms. It was he who stopped the confrontasi with Malaysia and Singapore. Had he chose to conquer the latter two, there was no guarantee he would succeed, but Indonesia will never be able to prosper if he did, that was for sure. Why would any country goes to war and waste lives and money? He knew the wisdom and was able to organised his own country and prospered it during his reign.
That brings the question whether any other country will invade Singapore? Only the most foolish of leaders will do so. There is nothing to gain from a resourceless country like Singapore, having it under ones’ wing is but to burden oneself. May I even say that there is a possibility that neighbouring nations maybe waiting for Singapore to ask for a merger or may have to foster it one day.
patriot.
CelluloidReality said
Aygee,
MM has certainly got a strong reaction from the public,that’s for sure.
Patriot,
Neutrality is at best a notion hoped for in academic texts and journals. In the coming years, the luxury of playing our balance of power cards will grow lesser, in fact.
Inevitably, Singapore will have to choose.
You know why? Because we’re not a superpower, let alone a hyperpower that can choose to say “Look, I will have no part of this and nothing you chaps around me do, can or will be allowed to affect me”.
What I have learnt said
I think MSK is dead, and now they are trying to apply cosmetic surgery.
Bottomline How can anyone escape from the toilet of a highly secure detention facility ?
Do they no thave guards watching the CCTV all the time ?
what about tracker dogs ? did they not find anything?
It has not come down to BLAME and not finding where MSK has vanished too.
SMOKE SCREEN ???
Fever Guy said
Dingo,
Thanks. Just my inner thoughts. I wish all Patriotic Singaporeans to pray that OUR NATION can be less complacent from now on. Ask every policy, laws and even our secret reserves. Question our million dollar minister on their actions. Bear this in mind all the time. Stop the ROT!
hogwash said
actually if WKS does not admit any error, and LHL does not conclude that his minister of home affairs is responsible, maybe it is true that it is a hint from LKY to Singaporeans to allow LHL to quietly step down and allow LKY to step up again. Is this the message?? hmmm…
patriot said
CelluloidReality;
thank You for the response.
If Singapore is a super/hyper power, we would not be talking about the Subject. It is precisely that we are so minute(tiny) that if we cannot win them, the neighbours, join and co-operate with them. Why do Singapore wants to ally with the Worlds’ most hated nation? Because the Leadership think that it is the ‘most powerful nation’ in the World. Has the United States proved anything other than being the Greatest Trouble Maker and a Great Failure everywhere it meddles with?
Realistically, we got to ask ourselves; what has the United States done to make the World a better place? It has imparted much evil values to the cultures of many other races throughout the World with their materialistic lifestyles, imperialistic/capitalist character. Even their schools had shown much signs of troubles, bullying, shootings and soon United States will begin to disintegrate.
Btw, altimately, like what one Malaysian Blogger said, Singapore cannot survive alone.
I am an atheist, but somehow, somewhere I agree with our maverick Kew kah Fatt with regard the US of A. That(US) is a wrong company to be with.
Yours sincerely: patriot.
patriot said
Just to nag a little more.
Ex President Suharto ended the ‘Konfrantasi’ to put his own house(Indonesia) in order. He had more soldiers then than the whole population of Singapore. The US at that point in time was fighting a lost battle in Vietnam.
It was not as though the Singapore and Malaysian Leaderships then were so capable as to stop the Confrontation as asserted by some bloggers/commenters.
The Anzuk Joint Forces(Australian/New Zealand/British etc) could have been a deterrent to the Indonesian aggression.
Insulted said
What sheer arrogance…
If there is one question I would like to ask the old man is that does he believe that the Pappies will be still be in power if we still had all single ward constituencies.
I also believe that the single ward system would have produced more capable leaders who will be more intuned to the pulse of the population and thus make better leaders than the present lot, who basically are representing people who did not give them the mandate. To them its just a well paying job which they do not want to jeopadise.
CelluloidReality said
Patriot,
It’s patently unfair to label the United States as the World’s Greatest Troublemaker.
In fact, we’re no saints too.
Read “Theoretical Roots of US Foreign Policy” by Thomas M.Kane. You’ll realise that the Machiavellian aspects of American foreign actions are almost the same as ours.
The only difference is that we end up playing Machiavellian politics and a winner-takes-all mentality in the domestic sphere far more than the States.
Trouble perceived by the world is currently a consequence of the current Republican adminstration putting her interpretation of what constitutes America’s primary interest first and foremost.
It’s a battle of interpretations now. Soft power vs hard power. Marines in Aceh vs Marines in Iraq. Same forces, same capabilities, same projection doctrine, perhaps same aim, but different use of this force.
We can’t say that our relationship is a black and white one. At most, it is grey, and we do not support American policies 10 out of 10, and when it comes to the Gulf and Palestine, we often vote in support of the Palestinian people and have our own foreign policy ties with nations like Iran.
patriot said
CelluloidReality;
with no other positive deed from the US of A available for me to show the World, the only alternative left for me was to cite its’ existing colours. And the US past history was not any glorious too, to me.
The same can be said of my own homeland, after growing for four decades, I have yet to see the gestation of nationhood but instead a growing chasm is born out of the womb of the Leadership with its’ people. And yet the Leaders are glorifying themselves ceaselessly.
I usually avoid talking about Foreign and Diplomatic Relations but have pondered the Purpose of National Service and its’ effects on Singaporeans. Dare I say that from what I have read of your postings, I found You are a very patriotic Citizen and do accept my respects to that. Personally, I am still not certain whether our armies will be used for National Defence, to defence others’ territories(sent for oversea missions) or God Forbids(as a description-am atheist) against fellow Singaporeans. MM Lee Kuan Yew makes me feel, that my suspicion, since the day I was in NS myself, that the last could be one of the the purpose.
And I worry, worry that muddle headedness and ego would destroy us because ‘cong ming e si, hu tu e si’ (born wise but muddle just once) can undo everything.
Yours truly:
patriot.
SGDaily Roundup: Week 15 « The Singapore Daily said
[…] Break, My Fault – Mr Wang Says So: Very Poor Service By The Straits Times – The Online Citizen: Mas Selamat’s escape – Government shifting the blame to Singaporeans’ “complacency” – i have succumbed to peer pressure: Re-reading Mr Lee vis-à-vis Pierre Macherey – Die neue Welle: […]
joker said
Hhahahaahah — lol —- We’re to blame!!!! I too will face the wall with shame like my children when they are bad, and say: I will not be complacent and allow terrorists to escape from my HBD flat in the future..
I will not be complacent and allow terrorists to escape from my flat in the future..
Repeat after me!
I wil not be complacent and allow terrorists to escape from my flat in the future.
hhhahahaaha. They must think most Singaporeans are morons! Like the ones supporting PAP here!
Sheep City » Return of Sheep City said
[…] it did cross my mind. Who knows really when my past blog posts were quite vehement in condemning the most high. However, I feel this matter of disruption can be easily […]
anon said
Poor MM Lee receiving the brunt of his own well-established education system. sigh
links for 2008-04-16 « desperate youth said
[…] the spin that has been put on mas selamat’s escape by the singapore media. see more here: mas selamat’s escape: government shifting the blame to singaporeans’ “complacency&… very poor service by the straits times ST and the betrayal of intelligence mas selamat’s […]
bunny said
OMG…now government has found scape goat for the investigation conclusion…The detention officers….BUT NOT THE MINISTER?
I remember when i first came out to work, one of my top management personnel once told me “When your employees make a mistake, it the supervisor responsibilty and cannot say its his subordinate who does it”. But in our typical singapore case, the supervisor (aka minister) always gets away easily….
I think it really time as many stated above to show the PAP some real signal in the next election…we want stable government not one that only keeps “talking” and avoids responsibilty.
Also, I think its really time our MM steps down….where on earth is there a MM in any country anywhere…..is this a monarchy system to be established in a modern world….lets think about it seriously….
Muddy said
In the words of V, “People should not be afraid of their Government. Government should be afraid of their People.”
cctv operator course said
training for sia…
Mas Selamat’s escape – Government shifting the blame to Singaporeans’ “complacency” « theonlinecitizen…
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