Separating fact from fiction – Addressing the allegations against theonlinecitizen
Posted by theonlinecitizen on February 12, 2008
Theonlinecitizen (TOC) would like to address certain allegations which have been expressed against TOC in recent weeks.
Addressing the allegations (highlighted in bold font):
One:
TOC is an anti-establishment, anti-PAP, anti-govt blog/website.
TOC is not an anti-establishment, anti-PAP, anti govt blog/website. Neither is TOC a pro-government, pro-PAP, pro-establishment blog/website. TOC endeavours to be a community of Singaporeans who care about Singapore enough to voice out views and issues which otherwise might not get aired. In this, we welcome and hope to include all views.
Two:
TOC is funded by the government or the People’s Action Party (PAP).
Neither TOC nor any of its members are funded by anyone from the government, government agencies, government officials, MPs, The People’s Action Party, opposition parties or any other organisations, local or otherwise – for their work on TOC. TOC has so far been funded by Andrew Loh alone – namely for the cost of registrating the domain name theonlinecitizen.com.
TOC is hosted by wordpress.com which is free.
TOC does not pay anyone to write. All our writers/members are volunteers.
Three:
Choo Zheng Xi is paid by a PAP MP / government to write articles for or on TOC.
Zheng Xi is not paid to write articles for or on TOC on behalf of or by any PAP MPs, opposition MPs, or any other organisations or individuals – local or otherwise.
Choo Zheng Xi assists Mdm Ho Geok Choo, MP of Boon Lay Constituency, West Coast GRC, in gathering material for Parliamentary speeches and helps to write for the constituency newsletter, Boon Lay Diary. For his efforts in the past 5 months, he receives an honorarium of $500 monthly.
Zheng Xi is not a member of any government or grassroots organizations.
Four:
Choo Zheng Xi is a member of the Young PAP.
Zheng Xi is not a member of the Young PAP. Neither is he a member of the PAP itself.
Five:
Choo Zheng Xi is a member of the Youth Executive Committee (YEC) of the Buona Vista CCMC.
Zheng Xi was a member of the Buona Vista YEC – six years ago when he was 16 years old. Zheng Xi did not seek a second term in the YEC when his first expired in 2003. Zheng Xi is 22 and he no longer is a member of the YEC.
The misperception about Zheng Xi’s membership in the YEC could be from this website which details his profile in 2003. The profile is not updated to reflect Zheng Xi’s current non-member status of the YEC.
Six:
Ephraim Loy may be involved in editing and/or censoring articles on TOC which are critical of the PAP/government.
Ephraim is currently a student at the Singapore Management University. Due to his work commitment, his involvement in the day to day running of TOC has been limited.
Editorial duties are mainly handled by Andrew and Zheng Xi. Toon Joo, TOC’s other co-editor, is overseas currently.
Also, comments posted on TOC are either approved or disapproved for posting on TOC by Andrew and Zheng Xi.
Seven:
Andrew Loh used to be a PAP member and now a WP Youth Leader.
Andrew is not and never has been a PAP member, nor is he a member of any government department/agency/organization.
Neither is he a “WP Youth Leader”.
He is an ordinary member of The Workers’ Party since January 2006, as has been clearly stated in TOC here. Andrew does not hold any appointments in any committees or groups in the WP. Neither is Andrew a member of the WP’s Youth Wing, which has been alleged.
Eight:
Gerald Giam is a member of the Media Development Authority.
Gerald is a volunteer member of the Films Appeal Committee (FAC), one of the many committees under the MDA. Gerald has no editorial responsibilities on TOC and his opinions on TOC are expressed in his individual capacity.
Nine:
TOC sent a lawyer’s letter to ‘Jasper’ demanding an apology and retraction of comments he posted on the blogsite Singabloodypore.
TOC did not send any lawyer’s letter to ‘Jasper’ or threatened him with legal action. Neither has TOC demanded an apology from him. TOC does not know who “Jasper” is.
Conclusion:
We do not know the identity of the person/s who has/have been making the above allegations.
We thank our many readers who have been very supportive of our effort, including fellow bloggers who have written to us expressing their support. You have made TOC more recognisable than we could have hoped for and we thank you for your continued support and encouragement.
TOC will continue its work of voicing out issues of concern affecting Singaporeans.
We leave it to our readers to judge our work.
Regards,
Choo Zheng Xi
Andrew Loh
theonlinecitizen 
Robert HO said
RH: There could not be a clearer point by point rebuttal. Sad that this was necessary but TOC emerges even stronger after this. Like they say, ‘what doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger’. Well done.
Vincent said
People should be enlightened enough to understand that whatever allegations that are floating around are largely unsubstantiated. Readers can and should exercise their own judgment and determine for themselves on the merits of each article.
“The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.” – Thomas Jefferson
Reading is no excuse for independent thought, and it should always be the exercise of the reader to do so: the decision to either put your thinking caps, or your tin-foil hats, is ultimately *YOUR* choice, and if there’s any disagreement with what being written here, there is always the choice of not reading it.
To the editors of TOC, do keep up the good work guys!
Now, can we get back to our regular programming, and leave those conspiracy theorists behind?
soci said
Separating fact from fiction – Addressing the allegations against theonlinecitizen
Someone signing off as Andrew Loh in the comment section [Or Wayangparty pretending to be Anthony Loh] demanded answers to the following questions.
1. Please tell us the name of the PAP MP whom you alleged paid Zheng Xi to write.
FACT Mdm Madeleine Ho Geok Choo, MP (PAP)
2. Please identify and name the articles on TOC about “this constituency” which you insinuated Zheng Xi was paid to write about.
No answer
3. Please tell us the name of “this constituency” so that everyone will keep an eye out to see if TOC will write “glowingly” about it, if indeed TOC writes about it.
FACT Boon Lay Constituency, West Coast GRC
After a further check of IP addresses in the comment section it is clear that wayangparty is on this [on the Singabloodypore site] occassion signing off as Andrew Loh in the comment section of this blog. So my addressing Andrew Loh (Editor of TOC) above is not correct.
Jaspers original accusation holds true though.
Dr Syed Alwi said
Don’t worry TOC. Just go ahead and do a good job as an alternative media platform and your credibility will be solid. As you say – you are neither pro-PAP nor anti-PAP. Just publish good articles whether they are pro or anti establishment. Leong Sze Hiang’s articles are good examples.
blackfeline said
what an anti climax..i thought si mi tai chi? really a small case..yawn!
SS Lee said
Let’s move on.
We need blogs like TOC to present a more balanced view of issues concerning citizens instead of being served packaged news from MSM. I appreciate the effort to keep this going as a concerned citizen.
Keep up the good work and finally, it’s up to the reader to discern if articles are readable or not. If they are not, no one is being forced to read.
LifesLikeThat said
Hello TOC,
Keep up the excellent work! Don’t get distracted by people with small minds. 🙂
freedom lovin Singaporean said
VIVA LA TOC….. SINGAPORE’S ONLY NON-PARTISAN FREE MEDIA
AC said
I think that the whole incident is sparked off by individual(s) who have an axe to grind with the TOC website and their writers – i.e. Jasper / wayangparty.
Like mentioned earlier, no other blog have complete disclosure on the level that Wayangparty demands – not even the author of wayangparty practices what he demands of the TOC. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
I do find the articles on the TOC to have an overall slant that leans significantly more towards anti-government. Perhaps this is in a way a balance to the slant we encounter in main stream media, but still it would be good for a balance of views to be maintained.
Hence I felt that the inclusion of Emphraim was a good move on TOC’s part to balance its view, and I thought that it is curious that Emphraim would join but yet contribute nothing in the way of either articles or comments – the big silence sort of defeated the purpose of him joining in the first place.
Daily SG: 13 Feb 2008 « The Singapore Daily said
[…] Daily on 13 February 2008 The Phantom Menace. PAP mole in the mist? – The Online Citizen: Separating fact from fiction – Addressing the allegations against theonlinecitizen – To Fix a Mocking Peasant: Playing Undercover – Singabloodypore: Baseless, Malicious, Hogwash No […]
lky said
I think if Jasper never appear here to substantiate his case, like Big Monkey said, it is decided, so what is there to quibble over, the stop watch has already started.
sarek_home said
We should make clear of what this “Jaspers original accusation holds true though.” hold truth means. It is a distorted truth.
Jasper mixed the truth about Remy writing for a MP outside TOC with the truth that Remy is a member of TOC. When the two truths are not clearly discerned, it result in a distorted truth.
I hope people are not saying any concerned citizen who are interested in voicing their views and contributing to constructive discussions like TOC should not be in any way associated with PAP.
Such view is no different from PAP excluding opposition members from grassroots and trade unions.
saintmoron said
I am willing to be misled if and when I choose to believe. I want to be independent whenever I am able to discern and to reveal the truth when I am certain.
The Blogosphere is for all and sundry, just bear in mind ones’ integrity.
Saint Splattergut said
What will the conspiracy theorists say next? That Jasper is inciting ill will and hatred amongst the otherwise peaceful Internets, to better divide and conquer?
Harro! said
Keep up the good work guys. Singapore needs you as part of its transparent society.
Alex Ong (eX.A.K.R.) said
As a occasional reader of theonlinecitizen (TOC), I’m somewhat surprised that someone who’s also providing an alternative (might I even say dissenting) voice in Singapore could so this, given that TOC itself is, in my opinion, having a dissenting slant against the government itself.
This is also why, in my opinion, Singapore is still not ready for full-fledged democracy yet – a true, mature democracy could almost never drag things down to this level, lest it destroys itself.
If we continue to play such politics among ourselves, ultimately, no one wins. It’s like fighting an unwinnable war in which both parties couldn’t defeat the other, withdraws, and still tries to claim victory over the other.
NOPE. NONE. ZILCH. NATTA. « Looking For LaLaLand….. said
[…] so many holes in this one. Andrew Loh has since clarified that he never were a PAP member. Remy Choo has since clarified that he is not a grassroots member […]
shoestring said
Yes, the keyword is integrity. A person’s ability to discern, and reveal the truth, is inevitably influenced by the company one keeps and associate with although it might not manifest in his consciousness. That is where being independent is better.
One does not need to be associated with, work for or under a certain party to be working with them to solve our society’s problems.
From what I have read, a number of writers here are still students. It is easy to keep one’s integrity intact when the stakes are negligible.
The real test is yet to come.
That said, TOC has so far done quite a decent job keeping biasness in within limits although it is not totally an advocate of free speech.
shoestring said
Sorry, should have been “bias” not “biasness”.
theonlinecitizen said
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all the comments – both the supportive ones and those with advice. We will take note of all of them and see if we can improve.
Personally, when I started this project (TOC) in 2006, I had no substantial blogging experience. It was purely out of a desire to provide my fellow Singaporeans, friends and myself a platform to air our views.
We have no political agenda.
The allegations against us, as can be seen, are based on incomplete or outdated or misperceived information. Perhaps, part of the blame is ours and we will endeavour to do better.
The team at TOC is united and will continue to do what we do – speaking out on issues which concerns us all. And the next thing which will affect us all is the Budget Speech this Friday and we are ready to focus on that. Lets hope the government will do more to help Singaporeans who are going through hard times.
Regards and many thanks,
Andrew Loh.
Kevin Tan said
I have no quarrels with TOC but the truth is that point three of this factsheet does stick out like a sore thumb. Semantically it is also the most awkward. First it states Choo does not write for TOC under any financial influence. Then, it reveals that Choo is indeed being paid by a PAP MP for “freelance” work for Parliament speeches and a constituency newsletter. The use of Latin, “honorarium”, does not obfuscate this.
“For his efforts in the past 5 months, he receives an honorarium of $500 monthly.”
It is $500 monthly. It is not a salary but an “honorarium” whatever that means? Go read the dictionary meaning of this word and you will find Choo does not qualify for an honorarium based on what he is doing for Mdm Ho. What is the extent of this relationship?
I have read and re-read what Jasper has written. Like soci, I find now that his original allegations are indeed not untrue. Choo is being paid by a PAP to write, maybe not for TOC, but again, how will we know?
Or maybe TOC would like to test another “allegation” made by Jasper : that Choo probably got a pay rise for his good work. Maybe Andrew or Choo himself would like to come out and state categorically that he has been receiving $500 since day one and there were no increases along the way.
I fervently hope to be wrong but yet Jasper’s “allegations” have so far been quite way off from untrue.
LifesLikeThat said
Kevin Tan,
What utter rubbish! If Jasper is the one who makes the accusations, then he should be the one to back it up. I think even a first year law student will know that. So, how come no one is asking Jasper to substantiate everything that he has said??
This is why people who want to accuse others of anything will have to have evidence to back it up. Isn’t that the way it works? Or do you live in another universe?
LifesLikeThat said
To add:
If I say Kevin Tan, you are a fraud who steals money from your company. What do you do? Yes, you could deny it but any judge will turn to me and ask: “Do you have anything to prove that? Where is your evidence?” And if I cannot provide it, I will be dismissed and maybe even ordered to pay cost to you.
The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.
Right?
Dr Syed Alwi said
Dear Kevin Tan,
For TOC to come up with a point by point rebuttal that includes admission of Parliamentary work – is a testimony to their integrity. All TOC has to do now is publish more articles which are relevant to us. The articles need not be pro nor anti establishment. Just be honest and have a reasoned viewpoint. The alternative media is OUR answer to a MSM that is 100% pro-Government to the point of being ridiculous !
LifesnotLikeThat said
“jasper” definitely made the accusation, but I believe the question that is at the back of most people’s mind is who really is “Jasper?” Now TOC says the don’t know who “Jasper” is. Infact no one seems to know who “Jasper” is, not SOCI, not even Wayangparty, but we know that when “Jasper” sent his apology it’s via a virtually untraceable server that is usually used by one particular group in the net for their gaming. I dont want to get mixed up with them so I will not mention them by name. We also know “Jasper” made contact with this group because he was yelping out for help and this group subsequently offered him sanctuary, but why? Who is “jasper” to them? We know the leader of this group is Mr Nothing for Nothing, so he is hardly even one to stick his neck out for even his own mother without a 2.2 mil fee! But later of this Mr Nothing for Nothing even issues out a cryptic message that seems to be protecting Jasper (note when Mr Nothing for Nothing sent this out, he has no idea TOC is not serious in pursuing the matter legally) here: http://singaporedaily.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/daily-sg-12-feb-2008/#comment-1056
Now read it carefully, Mr Nothing for Nothing is not as peaceful as he holds out to be, he goes on to say, if there is legal action, he will re-evaluate his position – the way I read it, it means he will dump his neutral position and take sides. Why would Mr Nothing for Nothing do all this for a “Jasper” that no one has even seen or heard of? Could it be “Jasper” may be someone in TOC? Why did “Jasper” go to these people for help? We all know according to SOCI, these ppl once entered his computer system, so did they do it again to erase electronic footprints? Did “Jasper” offer information to Mr Nothing for Nothing. Bear in mind Mr Nothing for Nothing is not stupid, so he is always looking for leverage and he doesn’t even trust his own mother. Why then would he go through all the trouble for “Jasper?” Who is “Jasper” anyway?
Maybe I am thinking too much, but me and my friends have a 30 to 35 min vid-post of the conversation that took place between who appears to be definitely “Jasper” he seems to be talking in an open forum, to a group of people. It was recorded in the counter strike forum, the man with cape may be you know who or maybe I just have a very imaginative mind?
Insouciant said
Quote = Kevin Tan: “I have read and re-read what Jasper has written. Like soci, I find now that his original allegations are indeed not untrue. Choo is being paid by a PAP to write, maybe not for TOC, but again, how will we know?”
Precisely, you don’t know. Since you don’t know, then have you to blabber about henceforth? What is the point of contention? Choo being paid by PAP to write OR Choo being paid by PAP to write for TOC? Since you don’t know about the latter, what have you to complain about seriously? I am assuming the former, being paid by PAP to write (not for TOC), doesn’t demand such condescension.
Let’s quote Jasper’s allegation on Choo shall we; “so the great saviour, REMY CHOO comes in to restore toc’s credibility but actually, he is the greatest con. guess what? this toc chief is paid by a pap mp out in the west of singapore to write. PAID BY PAP TO WRITE. and paid quite well so its said. with all the pay increases in gahmen, he probably got a pay rise too. wonder how much of this moola is spread among the other online cons. or maybe remy swallows this whole. well the only definite thing is, you’ll see more written on this constituency and of course, it’ll be glowing. toc is after all a great non-partisan bandwagon of truthful writing reflecting to the relentlessly downtrodden of singapore.”
You say you find Jasper’s original allegations are indeed not untrue, so you
1) Find Jasper’s allegation that Choo is the greatest con to be not untrue?
2) Find that it is not untrue that TOC is after all a great non-partisan bandwagon of truthful writing reflecting to the relentlessly downtrodden of singapore?
3) Find that it is not untrue Choo is being paid by PAP to write for TOC?
And yes, Jasper did accuse Choo of being paid by PAP to write FOR TOC.
His allegation: My [Jasper’s] allegations about TOC’s Editors [Namely Choo] being PAID BY PAP TO WRITE [since he made the reference as TOC’s Editions, it is implying they were paid to write FOR TOC] were based on hearsay without any concrete evidence. [This was his follow up response to his original allegation]
As for testing the allegation that Choo received a pay rise. This would be necessary only if you can prove Choo is being paid by PAP to write FOR TOC. If Choo’s pay rise is independent of his TOC works, i.e. PAP doesn’t pay him to write FOR TOC, may I inquire sir, on what ground(s) do you justify your demand for testing the said allegation? Are you already implying that Choo is paid by PAP to write FOR TOC? Prove? Evidence?
Perhaps you might want to re-re-read.
And please, do reply to other’s as well as my response to your comment. Do not behave like Jasper who has since been AWOL.
On a side note, why most stand up for TOC only after it has address the allegations with this post? Before that, most seemed bought over by the allegations…
papanon said
Paying a plumber an honorarium is less oxymoronic than paying a law student an honorarium.
kevin tan said
Such strong responses in support of TOC over a simple suggestion to refute Jasper’s allegation that Cheng Xi probably got a pay raise. I guess based on the integrity of Cheng Xi as he has displayed thus far, Jasper’s allegations must be untrue then.
Oh LLT, in case you failed to notice, if not for Jasper’s “accusations”, we would never have known of Cheng Xi’s honorable service to the MP and residents of Boon Lay.
Enough said. Thanks.
CelluloidReality said
So why is everyone taking the words of this Jasper fellow when he/she/it is clearly out to be the dividing factor?
It’s not hard to see who’s the real stirrer of the muck.
Fairness said
Lets put it this way: TOC is seen as an anti-establishment blog, which some actually believe it is even though the editors have said it is not.
So, *GASP*! An anti-establishment blog having its editors paid by an establishment MP! *GASP GASP*
But if you accept that TOC is not an anti-establishment blog, as its owners say, then is there really any issue here?
What if say, Choo was paid by an opposition MP? I think we would all be cheering him as a hero, wouldn’t we?
The blogosphere – and some bloggers – are still kids. No wonder the PAP thinks of Singaporeans that way too.
KC said
I applause the stand that TOC take to be singapore non-partisan blog space. Not everyone need to be associate with opposition in order to speak their opinions. Through this saga, we witness how immature some of the bloggers are.
noone said
I want the $500 per month.
Kevin Tan buddy said
i dun understand the vitriol responses to kevin’s comments. if no jasper = no TOC statement and revelation by zheng xi as a political intern of the Boon Lay MP?? and we will all be lving happily ever after? anyway its a simple question since zheng xi already confess le, did he get pay rise?
if not jasper wordpress sounds more and more true le
CelluloidReality said
Fairness, KC,
It’s true. If you choose not to grow up, people will see you as a kid.
chet said
keep up the good work TOC!
JDread said
Kevin the strong reaction comes from netters who want a non- or anti-PAP avenue that is not controlled by the 154th and don’t want it to be discredited. Criticize SDP and you probably will get the same reaction. Who cares what anyone said? There are many ex-PAP around. Even JBJ was a former PAP judge and Francis Seow. By the way if I am paid $500 to write for TOC, I would rather quit.
CelluloidReality said
It’s ironic that there’s an individual who insists that he’s right at all costs, doesn’t that bring about thoughts of a parallel?
So I see how people would want to flock to that fellow who wants people to believe that his allegations are the gospel truth.
Sorry, Singaporeans and most bloggers/readers of blogs are not going to be taken in by one man yelling out to the world that he’s right and thus we must believe him.
Too bad.
sarek_home said
What Matters Not.
The Online Citizen- an online socio-political blog aggregator which I read quite regularly has recently been accused on being a MIW mole, out to sow the seeds of propaganda on the internet highway for the MIWs. I don’t know about other people, but to be honest, it really matters not to me. They may or may not be a MIW mole, but ultimately, to me, its the content that really matters. The credentials and affiliations are really secondary.
Yes, informative content is most important and that is what TOC provides. People want gov to have some freedom of information act to make info available as a starter to engage the gov. Gov is not going to give us the info and TOC doing its best to provide whatever it comes across.
People who want to make use of the content from TOC to forcefully engage / challenge the gov can go ahead, no one will stop them. Just don’t get upset just because TOC is not doing the challenge job for them.
laicf said
Well, you can be anti-PAP or pro-PAP, as long as you are pro-Singapore.
Interesting to browse thru’ this website.
Nice to know I can read opinions when I am in Macau.
Nice to know I can have a decent banter over here as well.
cheers and keep up the good works.
anon said
jasper and co still not getting it.
It DOESN’T matter even if remy is paid by PAP to write on TOC.
What matters is the content. Even if accusations were true singaporeans will still be reading the blog and commenting. Unless you think that singaporeans have no mind of their own and cannot decide what they want to believe.
We know in a nebulous way straits times is paid by PAP using our money. That does not mean we cannot discern or comment on the report.
Now time for Jasper and the wayang co to come clean, what are your credentials. Maybe you would like to also post some of your political affiliations?
toffee said
They may or may not be a MIW mole, but ultimately, to me, its the content that really matters.” — sarek_home, ardent WP supporter
“The identity is not important. It is the message that is important.” — Tanjong Pagar GRC MP Baey Yam Keng, who heads up one of the New Media sub-committees tasked with the online counter-insurgency mission.
ahhh .. so ah baey correct la … heehee
New Straits Times said
Good Morning, the Online Citizen,
I am a journalist and I wish to seek questions to the following;
(1) Is it true that TOC threatened to sue Jasper? I understand no legal letter has been sent out, but the question, I am asking is was a threat made? This is what I understand from the reps in wayangparty, who have insisted that this was the reason why a unidentified Jasper subsequently sent a second post apologizing.
(2) If no threat was made why did Jasper request for help from certain quarters in the internet. I believe one group in particular assented to his request and they even broke into servers altering the trace routes and IP signatures? Why would they do this for Jasper, if there was no reason to suggest a real legal threat was made to sue Jasper by TOC?
(3) Finally, if TOC is really that kosher. Why is it that certain elements in the internet, namely this particular group who has rendered assistance to Jasper maintaining a policy of non-engagement with TOC? Why do they not feel the need to do the same with regards to other sites in the internet?
Thank you.
EyesOpen said
So funny to see everyone falling over themselves! The pap anti-insurgency is working! they have a mole who is defended and there is division among blog readers! small minded people think it is about anti-toc, it is bigger than toc you delusional toc fans, it is anti-pap propaganda! sheeesh. myopia.
theonlinecitizen said
To the person who posted under the nick “New Straits Times”,
We can be reached at theonlinecitizen@gmail.com
No threat or legal action was made to “Jasper” or the Wayang Party blog owners/editors/writers.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
Scratch said
We should all be questioning the credentials of the people over at the Wayang Party blog? I visited that blog and it looks like there is nothing there except anti- Workers Party, anti-TOC articles.
And when you think about it, there is nothing concrete in what they say. For example, they posted this:
“TOC has threatened to take legal action against Jasper and us for publishing these comments and have demanded an apology and retraction of statements made.”
See Here
Huh? Then how come they don’t publish the threat which TOC allegedly made? I wonder who the people behind that wayang blog are.
They’re more secretive and dubious than most bloggers.
laicf said
Denise Phua:
2006 – 85% of netizen s naturally anti-PAP.
2008 – PAP on-line counter-insurgency mission is working if based on this TOC..which started off as mildly anti-establishment and now shifted to neutral position.
And WP, SDP, NSP and SDA tearing itself apart into components and reforming into new party like Reform Party, Meng Seng joining NSP, Chia Ti Lik moving towards confrontational politics and not “PAP apologists”….and WP, SDP and NSP ceding gorunds in battle of Cyperspace again to a Monolith PAP…akin to “Opposition Mud-Sling” agaisnt PAP “light saber”…
And SDA da Invisible Man – all government policies start and end within Potong Pasir. But to be fair to Chaim See Tong, Potong Pasir supported him for decades and deserve 100% of hsi attention. “Rest of Singapore?” SDA “your poeblem mates.”
So, WP, NSP, SDA, Reform Party, et al, how are the “Confederation” going to attack PAP “Death Star” in Cyperspace as the PAP Empire had strike back after GE2006?
In attacking Remy Choo in Cyperspace, it looks more and more like shooting the messenger instead of going for the “Paymaster”?
Or is it the Chinese Strategy of:
“To kill an overwhelming Banyan tree, first you chop off its roots one by one…never mind those saplings growing beneath its canopy…starvng from sunlight.”
A bit short-sighted I will say when concentrating on killing the roots and ignore those growing saplings.
Nicholas said
I find that all this things about so-called who is the true opposition, pro-pap, anti-pap, mole in TOC, wayang party, anti-wp all very childish. Is this how politics work? Is this how democracy works?
We will never be truely an open, mature, democratic society if we cannot accept and allow differences to co-exist with each other. We must learn to accept that each group have their own niche and cater for different interests.
The Ordinary Citizen said
To TOC editors
Based on all that has been going on, i think you at least owe an apology to Jasper and Wayangparty.
I do not agree with their methods but in the end they called your bluff.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Taken from singabloodypore:
[…] Jasper, Wayangparty,
This is completely false, and really you have absolutely no credibility hiding behind pseudonyms making these completely incorrect assertions.
Anyone with a modicum with common sense would see the stupidity of a PAP MP paying people to be critical of the government.
Absolute rubbish.
Posted by: Choo Zheng Xi | 06/02/2008
======================================================================
[…]
I think if what you say are based on facts, you should not be afraid to name the PAP MP. Otherwise, I think we can all dismiss your allegations as baseless, malicious and hogwash.
Thanks.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
Co-editor, theonlinecitizen
Posted by: Andrew Loh | 06/02/2008
=================================================================================
or you can visit Jasper Wee
Goh Bock Seng said
Recently, there have been many allegations made against the editors of the popular web portal, the Online Citizen (TOC): http://theonlinecitizen.com/
The TOC editors have been accused of being either funded by the PAP, or at the very least, closely associated with the PAP. In addition, TOC is alleged to have threatened legal action on at least one blogger. Just a couple of days back, TOC wrote a lengthy blog post fervently denying these allegations. Many readers also weighed in on the subject and expressed their support for TOC.
I too would like to express my support for the Online Citizen. TOC provides a wide diversity of views and opinions on what is happening in Singapore, some pro-establishment, and some anti-establishment. This curious blend of neutral reporting and the ability to look at each issue from many sides without ever taking an unwavering stand is seldom found in cyberspace.
Although the PAP is confident that its policies are sound, will benefit Singaporeans over the long run, and will definitely stand the test of time, the PAP also recognizes that people must be free to air their views, provided that they do so responsibly and moderately. TOC is one good example of responsible and moderate reporting that the PAP would certainly approve of.
Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew (praise and blessings be upon him!) and the Old Guard singlehandedly brought Singapore from 3rd World to 1st, and built a nation of peace and prosperity, security, racial and religious harmony, and social progress. It is entirely due to their incredible dedication, hard work, and monumental sacrifices that Singaporeans today have a nation that they can be very proud to call their home. We and our families owe a lifelong debt of honest gratitude to these courageous men and women who put their lives on the line to build a modern and prosperous Singapore.
The PAP government (may the PAP progress!) has created a social environment that fosters intelligent questioning and debate of social and political issues, and encourages Singaporeans to play an active role in shaping the future of our society. It is out of this vibrant and thriving culture created by the PAP that TOC was born. TOC’s articles are balanced and well-written, and always based on the facts, although there have been many occasion when those facts presented were incomplete and did not portray an accurate picture of reality.
Although many TOC articles are critical of PAP policies, their arguments are presented in way that is thoughtful and measured, even if those arguments are often flawed.
Indeed, the PAP does not expect that everyone will agree with all its policies. Not everyone has access to all the facts and information, and certainly TOC does not. As time goes by however, the PAP hopes that eventually most Singaporeans will come to see the wisdom and strength of its policies.
In the meanwhile, TOC still plays an excellent role by offering an alternative platform and alternative set of views that encourages mature debate and logical thinking. That is what the PAP would like to see as well, as these qualities of logical thinking and mature debate will eventually lead people to see the goodness of its policies, and lead them back to the PAP.
All in all, TOC plays a vital role in shaping the kind of society the PAP would like. Let us thus put aside our petty differences and squabbles, and focus on the greater tasks ahead. Let us join in the Great and Noble Cause of Nation Building. Together with the PAP, we can reach for the Pot Of Gold!
Majulah PAP! Majulah Singapura!
Goh Bock Seng
TOC vs Jasper - Chronicler said
ON TOC, JASPER & CO AND THE FUTURE OF BLOGOSPHERE
“Let me tell you frankly what I believe to be the truth? ( I can only spare 10 min) Is TOC a PAP Trojan horse? Possibly – then again, some have said, based on the way I behave, I could well be related to Ah Meng (god rest her soul) – my point; possibilities do not make for probabilities.
If someone put a gun to my head and I had to finger TOC against this character called Jasper along with his motley crew aka Soci, Wayangparty et al. I will plumb to call the latter the real counter insurgents – allow share with you why? Because as the term counter insurgency implies, it has to be a snakey game.
It’s a bit like playing spycraft (I don’t know whether any of you have played this game) cut to the chase; if you want to come up tops, then it doesn’t pay to take anything at face value, that buys you a one way ticket to the morgue. Everything is topsy-turvy in counter insurgency spycraft, there are endless twist and turns everywhere and its pretty much conspiracy theory galore.
Now, if you really want to know what’s really happening – it pays dividends to ask yourself the basic and fundamental question; who has the most to gain from all this? Remember counter insurgency is a game (that’s all it really is; how do you get two buddies to fight in a cell? Give one a thicker mattress and the other one a wafer thin one – in no time, they will be tearing into each other like rats; prognosis: it’s a very primordial game, that first requires you to recruit your fears instead of trusting your hopes!)
In this game; the rule of thumb is you can take nothing for granted, nothing is ever what it seems, black can just as well dissolve into black and opportunities can all too readily give way to dead ends – so again, you need to go back to the basics and ask; who has to gain from all this?
Enough divergence. WHY DO I THINK JASPER & CO ARE THE REAL INSURGENTS? Because they have the MOST to gain from stirring up shit here; here comes the kicker, what are they trying to accomplish? What’s the package? What is the strategic payout?
Let me share with you a secret report that has been crafted by the guilds (this happens to be our strategic war gaming arm). Recently, they crafted a report stating that the probability of registration in the net is VERY high (nearly 90%), there are various reasons accounting to why they reached this conclusion (I don’t feel it is necessary to share it as it adds nothing to the discussion). This is a topic that hardly requires any elaboration, you could just as well fill up the blanks yourself; the growing importance of internet in shaping social political awareness; the need to institute control and command measures to ensure thought control; the list goes on and on. We may all be divided on many things, but one thing remains crystal clear; the net is currently a vacuum, a terra-incognita that is poised for invasion. We figured this part out, but what continued to dog even the best minds in the brotherhood is how can this be accomplished given the obvious resistance to registration?
This is where Jasper, Soci and the rest of those motherfuckers come in to fill in the missing jig-saw puzzle (the have moved and we registered it) – you see, one can only justify the whole idea of registration, if a conditions suggest it may hold the promise of a cure all the antidote to solve all the problems of our age. Think about it! But how does one go about selling the whole idea of registration to a community that is diametrically against? Simple, create the problem and that leads to demand for the cure, spread the virus and the antidote is brought into sharp focus. That my friends is the agenda of Jasper and the rest of those motherfuckers (I see right through them like glass) and how are they doing it? You can see for yourself – blogosphere is now in a shambles, brother has turned against brother, our collective fears have been heightened and even sharpened by these recent developments.
Now let me be perfectly clear about my position with regards to TOC. Is it true that we want nothing to do with them? Hardly, in the past, they have aggregated many of our articles, if there was a problem, we would have voiced it out then! Our position with TOC is the same with any producer in blogosphere; we respect them for what they are; does it matter to us whether they may be allied to PAP or the army of the 10 monkeys, we couldn’t give a flying fuck – we have an open policy and we firmly believe everyone in the internet is free to winnow the chaff from the wheat – if they do not, that’s their problem, it’s got nothing to do with us. Do we support Jasper and his motherfucking crew. No! We do not know how it is but we are aware, there are certain elements in the internet who are capitalizing on the fact we have given them tacit support; this I assure you is a not true.
We wish TOC well in the spirit of sportsmanship and we do not believe any of the spurious claims that has been vented by Jasper and his motherfuckers.
Our response to Jasper & Co this: they are insignificant and inconsequential, but let us be clear, we believe they are the real counter insurgents and do not mistake this; they have a clear agenda to disrupt, distemper and spread discord. if I had to place a bet, they are getting more than $500 for what they are doing – our hope as the brotherhood is that the Singapore blogosphere will continue to prosper and we strongly believe it would be a travesty of justice if sites like TOC are tarred and labeled only because many of us here are not exercising our right to discern truth from lies – we do not mind defeating TOC on merit, but this way is clearly underhanded and we cannot condone it – we are first and foremost sportsmen – I cannot imagine a greater travesty befalling any site and my hope is that many of you are able to separate the lies from the truth. We hope this impasse can be successfully resolved. We need to learn how to deal with these problems ourselves, otherwise, others will just come in.
I wish you all happy reading and Happy Valentine. This is to our new and old readers, it speaks of promise and my fervent wish is that all of you will discover it one day. Permit me to say this: I wish it for all of you……somewhere over the rainbow, there is a land I have heard of….someday.
Darkness 2008″
Posted by the Chronicler / this post has been broadcasted through out the strangelands.
saintmoron said
Fragmentation, factious and querulous; the people of this tiny landpiece are worse than sands, loose and impotent.
What’s the big deal to be included by NLB which many seem to opine as quite purposeless? Why create a storm in a teacup over an unimportant issue, making it a mountain out of a molehill? If the people are so trivial, then they are definitely no match for the Monolith. Who is who and with who is no issue. Let’s respect the rights of the individuals as much as we respect our own rights. Ultimately justice will prevail.
Much of the issues today concern the disadvantages of being Singaporeans due to the Policies dished and planned favouring foreigners(FT) and foreign(western) countries. It as clear as daylight that inexplicably, our leadership takes locals for granted, even to the extent of making them slave for the survival of this country. They(the leaders) fail to altruistically reciprocate the efforts of the locals that have answered to their calls all these years.
Another, a very GRAVE SIN in my personal opinion, is their greeds and needs for money which they reward themselves without the concensus of the Citizenry. With most people struggling for survivals, they(leaders) go against the flow glaringly and unashamely and sometimes even chide the people for laziness and foolishness. It is time to let them(leaders) know that the love for this country is not automatically extended to them, quite the contrary is true as many had abandoned this country because of their leaderships and not because this country itself is lousy and hopeless.
The people(citizens) apparently lack unity, playing right into the hands of the ‘divide and conquer(rule) strategy which of course has been a very effective tool throughout history. And it seems that the better educated are more contentious and more glory seeking not unlike the common perception that better educated children incline to be less filial than the uneducated and less educated children. Materialism probably has a big hand in this behaviour, it is either moneysake or namesake and worse, both. This again is brought about by our civic/ethical-less education system. Woes betide the graceless society.
May I end this post by suggesting to the leaders that if they cannot be with the people, the latter will never stop them from quitting their leaderships and or this country. The people will definitely respect their freedoms. Singaporeans never had the guts to show their loathes but that does not mean they do not hate.
tristy said
Saintmoron,
There are indeed ppl here in the net who see right through the divide and conquer strategy and they even know how to break every limb off that spider which threatens our beloved web.
They have spoken and as you can see they are ready for total war. As they said, blogosphere belongs to us not the govt.
Andrew Loh said
Dear Chronicler,
Thanks for the support. We at TOC appreciate it.
There have been many many untrue, false and malicious lies directed at us – the most blatant of which is the lie that TOC has threatened Jasper and the Wayang Party blog people with legal action, which the owner or owners of that blog knows is totally and competely not true.
Why someone would make such an untruthful claim, only he knows.
Personally, I trust that in the long run, what TOC is will stand the test of time – that is if we here accept our failings and learn from them. And to be sure, TOC does not claim infallibility.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
CelluloidReality said
I leave you chaps with one maxim here.
“Wah lao, u see them stand here so long, providing something good, then someone you donch know come in and tell u that those ppl are out to kill you and that’s all he keeps saying and slowly u see them try to take over the spot. You tell me you dont know who is the pai kia meh? “
theonlinecitizen said
Dear Ordinary Citizen,
You are mistaken. As you can see from the Wayang Party blog site itself, the owners or editors said:
“TOC has threatened to take legal action against Jasper and us for publishing these comments and have demanded an apology and retraction of statements made.”
When someone puts out a blatant lie such as this, I do not think any reasonable person would expect us to apologise. On the contrary, we’re waiting for them to prove what they claimed – that we “threatened” them with “legal action” and “demanded an apology” and “retraction of statements made”.
There have been no show of proof of such a claim – perhaps it is because the claim is an untruthful one which the writer of that post knows fully but chose to propagate anyway, for whatever agenda he or they have?
As for Jasper, his words in the context of his entire posting gives one a certain understanding – which, incidentally, the Wayang Party blog people also understood in the same way – namely, that Remy was paid by a PAP MP to write for TOC.
(Please read through the entire blog post by Wayang Party blog).
Thus, I do not know the basis of your saying that an apology should be offered by us. I would think that lying that TOC threatened legal action when he/they know is untrue would instead be more deserving of an apology offered, by them.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
theonlinecitizen said
Dear Robert Teh,
I have replied to the email you sent.
Regards,
Andrew Loh
I see, so I am said
People! Simple lar. Acid test:
How many articles on TOC are pro-PAP? = None, IMHO.
How many articles on Wayang Party Club of Singapore are anti-TOC /anti-WP? = Almost all their articles!
So: Who is the real PAP counter-insurgency?
So simple also dunno??? tsk tsk.. no wonder singapore education system so screwed up.
TOC, conspiracies, truth, and me « the world is thinking.. said
[…] instigated that certain writers of TOC were paid by PAP to write, well, pro-PAP articles. TOC then came out and made it clear that, to spare you from the details, it was neither pro-PAP nor anti-PAP; it strived to maintain […]
CelluloidReality said
Haha, it’s so elementary. So why do people not see it?
Helmet too tight ah?
freedom lovin Singaporean said
its clear the allegations are baseless
its clear these endless rounds of mud slinging against TOC aint making TOC look any guilty
its clear the anti-TOC opponents are bent on creating confusion and chaos
so let this string of replies end here…
should anti-TOC opponents spill any more, JUST IGNORE THEM…..
A tired man said
I have been spending my time searching for alternative views to the Main Stream for the past two years. My perception is that, since I am long aware that (from TOC editor’s summary page) there seems to be some writers that are working for the political parties of Singapore; I am prepared to choose the materials suit me well. I believe that the other readers do that too. Of course, if the news from the Sg blogosphere does not provide the alternative views but criticisms or pro-govt news or viewa, these are obviously shooing me off.
I feel that the SG blogosphere should be a place that can accommodate many different views and later, a tool that brings up peoples’ concerns to the top. I feel that, a good blogger is someone like Mr Leong Sze Hian. I believe that he hardly sides anyone. He analyses the issues carefully and expresses his views and his criticisms often accompanied with some constructive solutions. I think, he is merely writing for the people. Well, as long as, there are more than one opinions in the Sg blogosphere, I feel that, I and perhaps most readers will continue to read and express their views.
I believe what is seriously lacking in the political system is the people who really care for the people. True peoples’ hero is the leader who serves with their hearts and soul and sufficiently paid. I don’t believe that this product named, MONEY, will attract good leaders to work for the good of the people. Hopefully, one day, there will be someone like Mr Leong Sze Hian, working for the people in the government. Till then, the best alternative to represent the peoples’ voice is the Sg blogosphere. Let’s not abuse it in a way or another.
The TOC Fiasco - Truth is the First Casualty of War « The Sun Shines on Singapore said
[…] Fiasco – Truth is the First Casualty of War Posted on February 15, 2008 by thesunshineson The Online Citizen (TOC) conspiracy theory is one seriously complex issue. Allegations, half-truths and retelling of the story were from all […]
» What Matters Not. said
[…] an online socio-political blog aggregator which I read quite regularly has recently been accused on being a MIW mole, out to sow the seeds of propaganda on the internet highway for the MIWs. I don’t know about […]
Lazarus said
“Think about it! But how does one go about selling the whole idea of registration to a community that is diametrically against? Simple, create the problem and that leads to demand for the cure, spread the virus and the antidote is brought into sharp focus. That my friends is the agenda of Jasper and the rest of those motherfuckers (I see right through them like glass) and how are they doing it? You can see for yourself – blogosphere is now in a shambles, brother has turned against brother, our collective fears have been heightened and even sharpened by these recent developments.”
Didn’t connect the dots then, now it makes sense. The only problem is it makes too much sense.
Agnes said
I really like reading TOC. I think you all do a really nice job, and are providing a very nice resource here for Singaporeans. I must admit that I felt a bit disappointed thought, to learn that someone there is being paid by a PAP MP. Writing and gathering information for an MP, if done well, will help the MP get re-elected in however small way.
So my feeling of disappointment has nothing to do with TOC. It’s just that I don’t really care for the PAP, and am sad to learn that someone whose articles here I really like is, in some however small sense, helping them stay in power. It is slightly irrational, because I strongly believe that only content matters. No amount of money could make me work for the PAP.
Perhaps, for many Singaporeans, because of our extreme distaste for the PAP, we’ll not feel happy about anyone connected to them.
But your openness and care is very much appreciated, and I think TOC will continue to be a very nice resource. Thank you so much for all the interesting essays so far.
sarek_home said
The TOC Fiasco – Truth is the First Casualty of War
Posted on February 15, 2008 by thesunshineson
Conspiracy theories will always run its course in the blogosphere. Years ago, tomorrow.sg also had its fair share of the spotlight as an insidious government trojan. Some time from now, another blog will get the dubious honour, ushering it into this hall of honour. That’s the way it is.
http://james.seng.sg/2005/05/09/why-i-do-tomorrow/
saintmoron said
Tristy;
thank You for highlighting said article to me, read it before You alerted me. It is however no consolation as it worsens the fracas. I like to say it does alleviate my diasappointment to know that the search for truth and justice are ongoing and some of the very best minds are putting in their efforts.
This whole issue of ‘Trojan Horse’ and mole is nothing new and it will recur repeatly, so it is only to be expected from time to time. What I personally feel is that vehement reactions to it give the perpetrator(s) more exposures which enhance their visibilities and or even attractions. It would be wise to just leave them aside and take no notice of them and to do sincerely what one has been doing before. Lamentably, it now becomes complex and irritating, yet I believe justice will prevail.
topghost said
Dear Darkness,
Thank you for your most interesting take on the matter. I wish to take clarify a few points, you mentioned;
“Our position with TOC is the same with any producer in blogosphere; we respect them for what they are; does it matter to us whether they may be allied to PAP or the army of the 10 monkeys, we couldn’t give a flying fuck – we have an open policy.”
I don’t believe you truly appreciate the issues at hand. The issue IMO is whether there is a conflict of interest which TOC did not adequately address by allowing with full knowledge aforethought or by default to allow Remy to continue writing. We can say many things about the slant of Remy’s articles, they are anti-establishment etc and they may not even be supportive of the MIV or MSM view, but if I may use your analogy where you mentioned counter insurgency is a “snakey” game, then deliberately coming across as anti-establishment is also an effective strategy to infiltrate blogosphere. Surely even you cannot deny that.
One can certainly lamblast Jasper’s allegations no end, but even you cannot deny there is merit to his observations as it points to clear evidence of malingering and contrary to your assertion it is IMO grounds to continue to be suspicious of TOC. I for one cannot understand how such an intelligent man would even suggest for one moment, there should be an open policy in the net to even allow political parties to dominate it in the way that you have suggested – have you ever considered, we may not even be in a position to compete against anything as organized as the government or a party political system – that I believe is why Jasper’s allegations has stirred up such a hornets nest, as it provokes exactly these very sentiments which you do not seem to even recognize. Instead of advocating a “open policy” you would go further to suggest that blogosphere should be declared a neutral non-political zone and that I believe would be a far more sensible proposition. That of course also means Jaspers allegations concerning TOC is worthy and should not be dismissed as simply a vindictive attack without merit.
I hope that you will answer my question instead of skirting it as usual :). Many thanks.
JDread said
Dear topghost, let’s put Choo aside at the moment. When Ephriam Loy was recruited by TOC this was openly declared (his PAP membership etc.) and all the ruckus was raised and subsided. You can’t accuse TOC of not being transparent. Now on Choo. He’s not a PAP member and there’s nothing to declare. His work sounds more like pro-people than a pro-MP. Does it mean when a PAP MP is elected nobody should help him? Who suffers? People or just PAP?
JDread said
One more thing: from day one since I became an avid reader I saw the notice which says TOC is non partisan. You got problem with that, don’t visit this blog. Don’t come here to KPKB because TOC is not a party and don’t need to win your votes. Before you lambaste TOC for being immune to criticism and its critics denied freedom of speech. Let me say that they are ordinary S’poreans like you, so if you can demand answers, so can I of you.
saintmoron said
I like to address this post to Robert Teh, whom I found have worked tirelessly for the wellbeings of the State and the people, at least that’s what I could opine at this moment.
Before using saintmoron, I was posting as scb; as I concurred almost fully with most of his posts, we saw very much eyes to eyes and complimented each other. However, for some times a few of the regular TOC Posters were not posting at TOC. From some of their postings, I could sensed that some were disappointed with edits and reminders by TOC.
Though I had not been censored in my postings, I was on a couple of occassions quite disappointed that TOC did not correct one or two glaring mistakes of facts that I made. On second thought, I felt it was not their duties; I was hoping that TOC would be helpful but, it was not. I apologised and did the corrections on its’ site myself. I did not stopped reading and posting here despite the afore-mentioned, for I felt and still feel that it is worthy for most, if not all, their contents. Hopefully Robert Teh may share my feeling.
As for the Internet, I am very inclined to feel that it should be for everyone no matter their affiliations. We as readers and active posters have much to learn and gain from the different perspectives. I read and post at the Post 65 MPs Blogs too despite the fact that I have hardly, maybe never supported PAP at all. I am very much put off by their propagandas since I was a teen. However, there were times when I appreciated certain efforts that the Members and their supporters did. Allow me just to say that their cohesiveness thus far is something which the Oppositions and for that matter, even the citizenry are not able to emulate.
Some of us strongly feel that everyone has rights to say their pieces and though we wish that everybody upholds integrity and propriety when speaking up, that nevertheless is too idealistic; what with Trojan Horses and moles lurking around. As I had said before, justice altimately will prevail and those playing pranks are likely to be exposed as time goes by. So here again I say let’s do our parts as righteously as we ought to do.
Bhagyawati said
The PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad led by Ng Eng Yen and Baey Yam Keng has fast become a pest, not just a nuisance to the cyber community. Judging from the strong reactions given to the recent events involving theonlinecitizen.com (TOC), the whole effort of the PAP’s Counter-Insurgents Squad has back-fired on them very badly.
The Wayang King, so self-named as wayangkingsg at the Sammyboy.com’s Alfresco Coffee Shop (SBF), is at the centre of storm involving TOC. For those who have dealt with him before, he comes across as a member of the PAP’s Counter-Insurgents Squad, operating out of the National Health Group.
He has assumed a variety of online anonymous identities at SBF, such as thinknothing, thinkpeople, Mihailov75, mehailov75, samster005, samstor005, razari, kevansg, Firdaus77, jacy_, jacys_, PM0nkeyWP, aIz2by, 0nePerson, Yishun81, exist17, PM0NKEY10, Delphilian, delphiloon, thinkdelphi, Ahkong_, andrewshit, zhengxiTOC, norfirdaus, Sarrkozy, Mohd_Hakim, titusbamble, geraldTOC, sarak_home, NoorFirdaus, Ahmed_Yusof, mohdimran, samster55, spartacus436, porkchop59, bullshitGMS, MSVista, nvista, Mohdfarhan, daqigui, mohdjunid, mohdjames, MemberName05, porkchop611, aboutdelphi, delphifcuk, AndrewofWP, Andrew69sg, sockmonkeysg, wayanguru, checkentry, wayangclub, GH2788why, monkeylohhp, deankohh, createnew, callcab111, Goldenparrot, createpoll, madcow2788, COE75, PussyJUDGE, PDonkey10, namqiong5984, remychooo, AndrewLoh985, wayangkingsg, wayangclubsg, MaryKwan, etc., most of them have been banned.
For the regular forummers of SBF, they would remember that this Wayang King has been notorious in impersonating other opposition parties’ figures, such as Perry Tong, Low Thia Khiang, and Sebastian Teo at SBF, causing a stir in the local newspapers in Singapore. When he was caught red-handed for impersonating Perry Tong, he cunningly assumed another identity in the name of Bernard Soh (using a login name hongrui1982) to post a letter of apology.
With a history like this, it is not difficult to digest the recent events and who is behind them.
From all the evidences available, it is without a shadow of doubt that this Wayang King signed off as Jasper to post the first message on 05/02/2008 at singabloodypore (singabloodypore.rsfblog.org):
He was caught subsequently by soci to impersonate Andrew Loh to post a message on 06/02/2008 challenging Jasper at singabloodypore.rsfblog.org:
So the netizens have been taken a free ride by the Wayang King without knowing that they have been watching a wayang show conducted by wayangparty (wayangparty.wordpress.com).
With this in mind, there is a possibility that the second Jasper is also a clone of wayangparty used to further discredit TOC by posting a message on 07/02/2008 at singabloodypore.
It becomes clear that why an anonymous Jasper would bother to set up a blog (jasperwee.wordpress.com) for the sole purpose of attacking TOC if he is not a member of the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad.
Once we know that Jasper and wayangparty are the same person belonging to the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad, his malicious act of disinformation and attacks on TOC and Workers’ Party can be easily seen!
What the Wayang King did not expect is that his whole self-conducted wayang show has back-fired on the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad very badly and discredited himself completely!
Tua Pek Kong said
We need to bear in mind one thing, counter insurgency has been called a “snakey” game, that is to say it is never straight forward. If what darkness says is true, then this is only the first parter, what we did not mention of course is what will follow directly after this attack which is designed to spread discord and cause confusion.
Some useless internet expert is probably going to storm into blogosphere ridding a white horse shouting out registration, registration and registration.
As it is I am glad their designs have been thawrted once again, but one thing is clear, if it happens, all of us will probably say, “Ahhhhhhhhh standard lah.”
I am just waiting for that to happen now. As you can all see since their plans have been exposed for all to see by the bp people, the guns in wayangparty club have strangely fallen silent, you want to know why? These truths have homed in like tomahawk guided missiles and gone ka-booooom!
Their plans have been scuttled. I see it very clearly now, it is very clear.
TACL said
Let’s not be stupid to use the term “conflict of interest”. The most important thing about “conflict of interest” and accountability arises only when large sums of money is involved. For this case, you are talking about only $500 and that is not to write for TOC. Mdm Ho will be silly to pay Choo to write for TOC when she could have paid him to write for P65.
shoestring said
Ok already lah. Enough distraction. Can we focus on the CPF Life wayang now?
After skimming through it, the only difference to me is that they have changed the word “compulsory” to “automatic” which still means the same to me as long as there is no avenue for opting out. Or is there?
No matter how much they change the details, it’s the same if there is no opting out.
Can opt in (for some), no opting out = compulsory.
Am I right?
sarek_home said
Counter insurgent theory full of holes.
The NewSintercom (http://www.newsintercom.org/index.php?itemid=571) said:
“Whatever we might think about the PAP, they are politically cunning at least. …….. The PAP in its Internet offensive have probably dropped its P65 blog as its Internet flagship and moved to something else that the public wants to read – a moderate blog.”
The BIG HOLE Number 1:
Why is the politically cunning PAP, as NewSintercom said, would act in such foolish manner like:
Having Ephraim Loy. a Young PAP, as provisional co-editor of TOC.
Having Choo Zheng Xi paid to assists a PAP MP to gathering material for Parliamentary speeches and helps to write for the constituency newsletter,
Does it make sense?
The BIG HOLE Number 2:
Jaspers said:
“this toc chief is paid by a pap mp out in the west of singapore to write. PAID BY PAP TO WRITE. and paid quite well so its said”
First, Jaspers mixed the fact that Remy is paid for gathering material for Parliamentary speeches and helps to write for the constituency newsletter, not his work with TOC.
Second, don’t you think the politically cunning PAP will have better secretive ways to pay anyone to do their dirty work?
These two big HOLES are more than enough to sink this whole conspiracy theory.
It is said that some people are blinded from these big holes in plain sight because of their deep seated anger with PAP. They failed to think rationally to see these holes and misguided by people with flawed reasoning to spin an unjust attack against a group of caring, concerning young people who serve TOC and the general public with their objective and informative articles.
Doug said
I am a foreigner currently residing in Singapore and just trying to get a feel for the culture so you may or may not be interested in my opinions on this matter. I will share them with you regardless:
1. ‘Life is waaaaaay too short’ to actually engage in spurious and baseless mud-slinging matches with anonymous individuals. TIP: Ignore and move on.
2. If one does deign to dignify such allegations with a response, be careful of the ‘the lady doth protest too much’ response. It is the natural reaction of an observer.
3. ‘Don’t fail to see the forest for the trees’. Nobody seemed to have noticed that somebody suggested that this is why S’pore is not yet ready for full democracy. Don’t get so caught up in meaningless debate about petty name-calling that you miss the REALLY important things.
4. A newspaper (electronic or otherwise) of standing should ALWAYS support freedom of speech, not just when the speech is measured and seemingly just: ‘I might not agree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it’ is a always good starting point…
5. …but you don’t have to publish it! Dealing with rantings of the insane and the juvenile is a small price to pay for the immeasurable wealth of wisdom gained from a frank and open discussion about things which matter to people. Unfortunately, newspapers bear a dispraportionate level of responsibility in this regard.
6. Truth is a fiction designed to confuse you. The human condition is trying to undestand the universe, logic is a tool to that end. The universe does not have to be reasonable, to insist on absolute truth of any statement does not advance an argument and indeed suggests a poor grasp of the very principles of insightful reasoning. A satisfactory level of mutual understanding should be the goal.
As I say: take it, leave it, make paper aeroplanes with it…
Disclaimer – I don’t really care who is right or wrong in this instance.
CelluloidReality said
Doug, good call.
It’s a simple case of an issue blown out of proportion.
snakecharmer said
Doug
You have your reality. We have ours. All I know is this you cannot stop people from forming their opinions positively or negatively abt TOC. Everyone has a right to form their opinion and if they choose to view it as small, medium or big that is their choice, you say ignore them, that doesnt mean you are more justified, it simply means you choose to ignore them and that adds and subtracts nothing, it just means you choose to ignore them. That is all. In life if only all solutions are so simple that they can simply be ignored only to resolve themselves magically. If only
JDread said
snakecharmer, everyone has the right to form an opinion but it is how you express it that shows your agenda. Expressing an opinion is one thing and wanting to influence others with that opinion is another thing. This case shows the person wants to spread ill will against TOC by repeating the same thing in different blogs using different nicks, it’s not just simple expressing views.
DeepNeck said
JDread,
The Wayang King, so self-named as wayangkingsg at the Sammyboy.com’s Alfresco Coffee Shop (SBF), is at the centre of storm involving TOC. For those who have dealt with him before, he comes across as a member of the PAP’s Counter-Insurgents Squad, operating out of the National Health Group.
HIS SOLE PURPOSE IS TO ATTACK AND DISCREDIT THE WORKERS’ PARTY AND TOC. He has set up a blog specifically to do this.
He has assumed a variety of online anonymous identities at SBF, such as :
thinknothing, thinkpeople, Mihailov75, mehailov75, samster005, samstor005, razari, kevansg, Firdaus77, jacy_, jacys_, PM0nkeyWP, aIz2by, 0nePerson, Yishun81, exist17, PM0NKEY10, Delphilian, delphiloon, thinkdelphi, Ahkong_, andrewshit, zhengxiTOC, norfirdaus, Sarrkozy, Mohd_Hakim, titusbamble, geraldTOC, sarak_home, NoorFirdaus, Ahmed_Yusof, mohdimran, samster55, spartacus436, porkchop59, bullshitGMS, MSVista, nvista, Mohdfarhan, daqigui, mohdjunid, mohdjames, MemberName05, porkchop611, aboutdelphi, delphifcuk, AndrewofWP, Andrew69sg, sockmonkeysg, wayanguru, checkentry, wayangclub, GH2788why, monkeylohhp, deankohh, createnew, callcab111, Goldenparrot, createpoll, madcow2788, COE75, PussyJUDGE, PDonkey10, namqiong5984, remychooo, AndrewLoh985, wayangkingsg, wayangclubsg, MaryKwan, etc., most of them have been banned.
For the regular forummers of SBF, they would remember that this Wayang King has been notorious in impersonating other opposition parties’ figures, such as Perry Tong, Low Thia Khiang, and Sebastian Teo at SBF, causing a stir in the local newspapers in Singapore.
When he was caught red-handed for impersonating Perry Tong, he cunningly assumed another identity in the name of Bernard Soh (using a login name hongrui1982) to post a letter of apology.
With a history like this, it is not difficult to digest the recent events and who is behind them.
So the netizens have been taken a free ride by the Wayang King without knowing that they have been watching a wayang show conducted by wayangparty (wayangparty.wordpress.com).
It becomes clear that why an anonymous Jasper would bother to set up a blog (jasperwee.wordpress.com) for the sole purpose of attacking TOC if he is not a member of the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad.
Once we know that Jasper and wayangparty are the same person belonging to the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad, his malicious act of disinformation and attacks on TOC and Workers’ Party can be easily seen!
What the Wayang King did not expect is that his whole self-conducted wayang show has back-fired on the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad very badly and discredited himself completely!
Lai CF said
You can go on and on…
What if Jasper and WayangKIng attack on TOC is planned to give TOC credibility as a balanced non-partisan forum whereas it is actually a pro-PAP Forum?
An ancient Chinese Strategy of torturing one of its own, a high-ranking officer, (acting as an insurgent) to give credibility to his message as a “traitor”, therefore causing his enemy to fall into a well-planned trap?
Look like we are getting paranoid seeing spook in every nooks and corners.
Goh Bock Seng said
Dear Robert Teh,
There is nothing wrong with having PAP members on the TOC team. Their mature and responsible views add credibility to TOC and allow it to be differentiated from the plethora of anti-establishment blogs that criticize the government most of the time.
You have no right to question who TOC picks on its editorial board, as you are merely an outsider who, unlike TOC, have no interest in cooperating with the establishment or representing the mainstream views espoused by traditional media. You clearly do not know which side of your bread is buttered, unlike TOC.
For you to insinuate that is TOC trying to open itself to surreptitious control by the PAP is an insult to TOC as they are perfectly capable of supporting the PAP without anyone telling them to do so.
The PAP government (may the PAP progress!) does not need TOC to advance its agenda or promote its policies. They already have the mainstream media as well as various discussion groups and committees to do that for them. On the other hand, TOC has engendered lively debate about current issues and government policies, and in so doing, created even greater awareness, even if sometimes their arguments and line of reasoning leave much to be desired. Sadly, even TOC sometimes falls into the trap of being anti-establishment for its own sake, as if merely to impress the masses. Readers should therefore read TOC not only with an open mind, but with a critical mind as well.
What is needed is for people like you to debate with TOC constructively and challenge them on the facts when they get their line of thought wrong, when they fail to see the forest for the trees, and when they pander to the masses for the sake of Realpolitik.
Goh Bock Seng
Genie99 said
Dear Goh Bock Seng,
It is TOC’s choice if they wish to have PAP members on the TOC team. But to be fair it should be made known to their forumners. Whether the PAP members contribute responsibly and add credibility to TOC is insubstantial. This goes for Opposition members as well.
When I visit a forum I expect it to try to be a neutral body. It is difficult for a commoner such as myself to have faith that the forum is trying to do that if political members are admitted into the editorial body. It is insubstantial if TOC claims that and i quote you “TOC, has no interest in cooperating with the establishment or representing the mainstream views espoused by traditional media”, that faith is lost amongst some of us. It is similar to having friends that are all criminals, few will have faith that I am not one myself. The fact I am not one is insubstantial as faith is lost amongst the public. This is a fact in life be it right or wrong. The question is why does TOC choose to go against the public faith?
To quote you on “The PAP government (may the PAP progress!) does not need TOC to advance its agenda or promote its policies. They already have the mainstream media as well as various discussion groups and committees to do that for them.” The PAP government does not need TOC but i believe it stands to gain if TOC was there to advance its agenda. That is reason enuf for the common public’s faith in TOC as a neutral body to waiver. And as fer false accusations and questions…. that is a bi-product. If TOC is distressed about the accusations then don’t do it? Same goes for a celebrity…. if you can’t take the stress of the papparazi… don’t be a celebrity
saintmoron said
It will be good for society if people pledge allegiance to fair play instead of to alliance. Affiliation would not matters much when the common objective is the act of benevolence.
Alliance is for people with common and similar interest and not for the oath of blind faith as in triads. It is neither for the worship of leader and leadership, respects can be accorded privately and collectively when all or majority of the people feel it at the same time individually.
Imagine there comes a day a PAP Member of Parliament tells the Government that some policies are not sound and or that some past policies were lousy in a parliamentary debate for all to see, that will be very comforting! Is it believeable that a group of people feel and share the same ideas, opinions and wishes with no differences amongst them over a long period of time?
I opine that one reason why a purely oppositional political party, individual and establishment is not able to win the hearts of others is simply because of a ‘one way’ thinking.
Lording it over the internet « Used Brains For Sale said
[…] paid for it, so you know, I don’t think I’ll be accused of being a PAP mole by the internet conspiracy theorists. But of course, the content will be up to our beloved […]